Where to get gears installed in bay area

Jeep450r

Jeep450r

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Nor*cal
Where is a cheap reputable place in the bay area to have gears installed? Or could someone on here do them for some extra cash?
 
check with brian c, he is in dublin & is a jeep mech. by trade i think. keep it in the naxja family.
 
I'd like to know also. If there's a member that can do it for a good price, I'd rather do that than go to a shop. NAXJA ftw.
 
I think most the people in the Sierra Chapter that did gears in the past have all stopped helping out. Too much of a PITA. People want there money back or them to fix it when they break the gears.

Or worse when someone brings in used gears and asks to install it, told that they are used and will sound ugly, then later on tells everyone that he got ripped off because of a bad install . . . .


Sucks but a few bad apples wrecked it for the rest of us.
 
I got a luke warm response from jeepspeed in Petaluma about an inquiry. Arabias Bros in Cambell was reasonable for the front install, but by the time I got to the rear D44, just bought the tools and followed the instructions that came from WCD and they seem quiet enough.
 
I ahve offered to install in the past, but Letterman's point about bitching/liability is true, so now I only do for friends. If you can make the drive, WFO Concepts in Auburn does them for $300 an axle. They set them up right, which is very important. If you can't make the drive, PM me and I'll give you a list of questions to ask a shop before letting them touch your gears. Lots of "mechanics" still set up gears by "feel" instead of measuring backlash, pinion torque, etc. With an off-road rig, they will often not warranty their crappy work and say your large tires and heavy right foot broke them.

Good luck!
 
kj139 said:
I ahve offered to install in the past, but Letterman's point about bitching/liability is true, so now I only do for friends. If you can make the drive, WFO Concepts in Auburn does them for $300 an axle. They set them up right, which is very important. If you can't make the drive, PM me and I'll give you a list of questions to ask a shop before letting them touch your gears. Lots of "mechanics" still set up gears by "feel" instead of measuring backlash, pinion torque, etc. With an off-road rig, they will often not warranty their crappy work and say your large tires and heavy right foot broke them.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Yeah I had a ARB put in a Dana 30 with gears at Rearend Specialties for $150. Good price but I had to bring the axle in, if it was under the jeep it would have been more.

But no pinion shims were used :cool: and so there was no pinion torque at all. The gears only lasted about 2 years, and thats with wheeling at least once or twice a month. :bawl:

So because of that and a few other issues I am not a very big fan of Rearend Specialties.

Also kj139, post up that list of questions, I am sure we can all use some more good infomation.
 
Pete's Gear Shop Inc
21065 Foothill Boulevard, Hayward, CA
(510) 537-9446
Pete does great work but he does not like it if you buy your gear someplace else due to warranty issues and he is not cheap
 
Letterman said:
Yeah I had a ARB put in a Dana 30 with gears at Rearend Specialties for $150. Good price but I had to bring the axle in, if it was under the jeep it would have been more.

But no pinion shims were used :cool: and so there was no pinion torque at all. The gears only lasted about 2 years, and thats with wheeling at least once or twice a month. :bawl:

So because of that and a few other issues I am not a very big fan of Rearend Specialties.

Also kj139, post up that list of questions, I am sure we can all use some more good infomation.
Click to expand...


List of questions before letting someone touch your gears:




-What backlash does this rearend take and how do you measure it?
  • Every rearend has a different parameter for backlash. If they quote you a number without referring to a source, they are either REALLY good, or they are BS-ing you. If they give you a range but say they wil double-check, they probably know their stuff (maybe).
  • If they tell you they measure backlash by any method other than using a dial indicator with a magnetic base, walk away. Lots of professional mechanics still use the "feel" method of checking backlash, which is a coin toss at best. I have never met a person who can "feel" the difference between a few thousandths of an inch. A few thousands of an inch of shims can be the difference between a great gear set-up or a grenaded dif.
-How much should the pinion rotating torque for this axle be and how do you check it?
  • Like backlash, every axle has different parameters for pinion rotating torque.
  • In order to properly check this, they have to have an inch-pound (not foot-pound) dial (not click) type torque wrench. These are expensive, but any guy who cares about proper gear set-up will have one. Once again, lots of mechanics check this by "feel." This measurement is every bit as important as backlash.
What is bearing pre-load and how do you set it?
  • With new bearings, you need to add a few thousands in shims to take up the slack that will be created once the bearings break in. This varies depending on who you ask and can range from 0.002 per side to as much as .015 per side. In my experience, I set the gears up to the tighter end (lower tolerence) of spec, and then add a small amount of shims depending on the set-up and how much it alters everything else. I've never been able to get .015 in and feel that if yo can get that much in for pre-load, the initial set-up probably wasn't done correctly in the first place. However the machanic does it, you want to make sure that they already know that they need to pre-load the bearings.


-How do you set the pinion depth?
  • Pinion depth can be set by making a "set-up" race with an old pinion race and puttin it in and taking it out, etc. Garage mechanics have been doing it this way for years; however, a shop or mechanic that knows what it/he is doing and does it often, will have a pinion depth checking tool (there are a couple of different types, both work fine so long as they know how to use them). Having the right tools eliminates the guess work, the trial and error, and having to check the tooth pattern every time you adjust the pinion depth.
  • They use the pinion depth tool to find the exact centerline of the axles/carrier bearings and then measure to the top of the pinion head. They they use shims to adjust the difference between that measurement and the number scribed onto the top of the pinion head (at the factory, each ring and pinion is a matched set and they scribe in the depth measurement required for a perfect set-up for that indivicual set of gears.
  • Your call on whether you like what they tell you.
- How do you determine which way the bearing caps go on?
  • Each bearing cap is not interchangeable with the other side, nor can it be put on backward on the correct side. These are machined to fit on a specific side and in a specific direction.
  • They should tell you that they mark the bearing caps with a number punch, which is the standard way of doing it. Sometimes however, if the person who had the axle before you put the bearing caps on wrong (I just found this on a D-44 I set up last week), the shop will just mark the wrong order and repeat the error.
  • From the factory, each bearing cap should already be marked. Typically, one side will be marked with a number punch in the right side up position, and the other side will be marked with the number punch turned sideways. The same markings will be present on the gasket surface of the housing.
  • This is gears 101, so if they get this wrong, your dif WILL grenade.
- What is a good tooth pattern and how do you check it?
  • Almost every mechanic (good or bad) will be able to answer that they use gear marking compound to check the tooth pattern. There are a number of acceptable patterns, so there are a lot of variences to this answer.
  • In the end, you want to hear that they apply pressure to the ring gear (with their hand) and then rotate the pinion back and forth. They then check the pattern on both the drive (convex) and coast (concave) sides of the teeth and try to get the contact pattern in the middle of the tooth. Too loose = lots of backlash and not much surface area taking the load. Too tight = not enough backlash and no gear oil can get between the teeth and everything overheats. Likewise, they want the pinion to contact the ring gear in the middle. If it is too shallow or too deep, then there is limited surface area taking the entire load, which can lead to breakage; especially when we're bound up in the rocks.

- Who will be setting up my gears?
  • Just because the guy you're talking to knows how to properly set up gears doesn't mean his son that works weekends or the guy they just hired does. As Letterman can attest, breaking a R&P on the highway is bad, doing it on the trail is a problem.
- How many rearends do you set up a month/year?
  • Nice to know if they do this a lot or if they will be trying to remember things as they go.
  • Even if they do them all the time, you can still get a dud, like Letterman did. It is crazy that a shop with a name like Rearend Specialists would do such a crappy install on someone's rearend. I would avoid that place like the plague.
If the mechanic can answer these questions and shows you the tools, you're probably in good hands. If he can't, go elsewhere. Rear-ends are not hard to set-up, but they do require some specialty tools, as well as patience to get things right. Double-checking, triple-checking, etc. etc. etc. is almost always needed to get the set-up within specs. If you don't get the impression they will spend that time and care, well, you get what to do.

Like I said before, lots of mechanics BS their way through setting up gears. You need a good shop, even if it costs a bit more. WFO Concepts in Auburn does a great job, has all of the right tools, and has one person assigned to setting up gears full-time. They have the tools to bore spindles, shorten tubes, etc., which if I didn't know them, would make me feel pretty confident that they do this a lot considering their sizeable investment into specialty tools that most shops don't have.

On the flip side, if anyone ever wants to tackle their own gears, I am always happy to walk someone through the process. I recently sent a list of directions to another NAXJA member along with my phone number in case he got stuck along the way.

You can get a dial indicator, magnetic base and calipers from grizzly tools .com (I think it is www.grizzlyindustial.com) for around $40. You need a press to press bearings on, as well as a tool to pull the old bearings off (there are several different types a several different costs), or you can just take these to a local machine shop and have them done for a few bucks. The inch-pound, dial torque wrench is the torque wrench is the most expensive tool, but if you watch E-Bay for a while, yo can get lucky (that's where I got mine). You also need a foot-lb, click-type torque wrench to use when torquing the ring gear bolts and bearing caps. Randy's Ring & Pinion sells a great book that has all of the specs for every axle you can imagine. So, for an investment of a few hundred dollars (the price for a mechanic to set up one axle), you will have the tools to do your own. I think they're fun to do because they are challenging and require so much precision. They can be very frustrating though...

Good luck!
 
Last edited:
Wow man, thats some good info right there.

Thanks for all the input guys!
 
What type of gear ratios are you guys running? I have 33" tires on my rig with stock gears right now, but I'm not sure what gear ratio is best, any suggestions?
 
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