truggy just ate your biscuit

[jdxj]

Re: Jd's UglyBuggy Build

Sounds like it should be a sweet rig. I'd go with a full chop with frame build, weld the hatch and narrow the front. I'd ditch the exo cage and just do an interior cage to help keep the wait down, isn't going to be much body left to protect with a echo cage anyway.

Thats tru hadn't really thought of that, Might have to mill that over for a few.....Although i want to be able to flop it and not get to stressed about it!

:skull1:

 

[DutchVDub]

Re: Jd's UglyBuggy Build

So things I'm iffy on are

1

lift Height Thinking 4"-4.5"

I wanna keep the COG low and am gonna cut most the sheet metal anyway so rubbing won't be a issue

I would go with 4.5" for the extra ground clearance, maybe even 5.5" Having a LCOG is great and all, but not when you're just dragging and smacking your underside all over the trail. Also, uptravel makes for a smoother ride on the trail leading to the obstacles.

2
THE CHOP definitely gonna chop the back at right behind the back doors And Narrow it

Question is Chop it all the way off and build a frame up truggy in the rear

or leave the floor and frame and build up from there.

I'm heavily leaning towards the first option.

I would carefully cut off the rear "fenders" and then tube out the rear, later on attaching the "fenders" to keep the XJ look. If you're going to be linking the rear and narrowing the body anyways just chop it off clean and start fresh.

3 Gears
planning for 5:38's i was running 5;46 with the 35's and wished i had deeper gears so i ws thinking 3 step- down rather than 2

I assume you meant 4.56's w/ the 35's. Gearing is going to depend on the t-case a lot. I am personally a fan of lower (numerically higher) gears in the axle and a higher (numerically lower) t-case low range. If you go with a 4:1 I would probably go 5.13's but otherwise would agree with the 5.38's


4 Tcase
should i get a 300 and flip it and 4:1 it, or just go with a atlas and 4:1 gears or other ideas

If you can afford it I would go Atlas. You just can't argue with the sheer strength of that monster. I would personally go with a 3:1 though and just gear the hell out of the axles.

5 rear links

4 link w/ TB ,3 link w/tb ,dual triangulated 4 link W/O TB, radius arms Ive taken some good long looks at the busted knuckle garage radius arms for the broncos and could make those work pretty easy and they are tough as hell. Thats what the ultra 4 guy that i rebuilt the buggy for uses front and rear.

Double or Single triangulate rear w/o a panhard bar. That's just my personal preference. I would be wary of the unloading potential of a rear radius arm setup.

6 Hatch

should i relocate the hatch just behind the doors and weld it in place, don't have any desire for it to open. or just leave the back open and have a soft hatch back type cover made at a boat cover shop.

I like the idea of open in the summer but would like the warmth in the winter and not having to cover or park it inside.

THOUGHTS?????

Seal it up with the hatch. Better yet, take the time to make the hatch removable for the winter.

7 front end

Almost sold on narrowing the front end a bit as well.......would cut the grill, header and sandwich it back together for a cleaner look.
gonna build fenders out of tube anyway so now would be a good time to narrow it if I'm ever gonna!

I think it just depends on clearance issues with your suspension. XJ's aren't overly wide to begin with and the engine compartment is already cluttered and small. If you can get away with not narrowing it then I would leave it alone.

 

[freerider15]

Re: Jd's UglyBuggy Build

Yea I was at 7" before and it was way too tall! I'm thinkin 4.5 should be ok! At least if I need to make height adjustments later ill just need to replace the front coils!

Honestly...if you're going this far...just trust me and ditch going with coils and go straight to an airshock, coilover, etc. You will thank me later.

For as much time as will be spent building coil towers, shock mounts, and ALL the crap associated with coils...you could have 8 tabs and be...DONE. You will end up wanting those items in not long, since coils aren't really adjustable as any of the above are.

I've told my friend and roommate who's putting his TJ on tons this many times to the point i've convinced him. He says he's much much happier going that route. A LOT of time and headache saved for something you're going to do in the road ahead anyways whether you know it or not.

I always see people selling their used shocks too, so it wouldn't be hard to be budget friendly and get them.

Hell...I saw a vendor on pirate selling 4 2.5" remote reservoir FOA Coilovers WITH all coils for $1400 not long ago.

 

[freerider15]

Re: Jd's UglyBuggy Build

Makes since, I know a few guys that have chopped and like it but most don't! I just wanna have a hardcore rig and still have a cab so I can take the kids with! In a few yrs once the kids are old enough to drive their own rigs I plan to build a 2 seater! Either a MJ or just a buggy! The good thing is that I'm in the offroad buisness so I'm pretty much always gonna be building another rig just want to do justice to this one cause I bought it new and beat the sheet out if it! So I wanna make it cool again!

If I were you then...keep the XJ more full bodied...or essentially copy what RCMan did and tube out from the front of the rear quarter window back.

You'll spend less time down, and more time on the trail. My buggy was an XJ once...about 5.5 years ago.

I think if you chop too far, you might end up over your head for what you intended, ESPECIALLY if you're not going for a 2 seater. I've got a good build sheet in mind for a rather full body XJ that would kick some ass.

 

[DutchVDub]

Re: My Turn

OH and i'm planning on stretching the WB a little but how much IDK any thoughts??

I liked the 107" WB on my YJ and several of the guys I know with hard core rigs run the same WB. Longer WB's are getting more popular with the JKU's and for the stability when climbing tall ledges but it really just depends on your terrain of choice. The XJ's 102-3" WB already works pretty well but a few more inches is helpful. (<--- HaHa, that's what she said. )

 

[jdxj]

Re: Jd's UglyBuggy Build

3.) Go either 5.13's or 5.38's would be my choice. Unless you have some snazzy gearing and HP (which is no with 4.0L ) you're going to want a little deeper gears.

4.) If you have the funds...go atlas. If you really have some funds...go with a Trail Worthy Fab T-case. I'll be going with one of those over an Atlas if the day ever comes.

Yea the lower the better in my mind because I don't plan on this being a road rig anymore!

Why would you put a 4-link in the front with a panhard!?!?

Rear: definitely dual traingulated 4-link.

Front: 3-link with panhard, or I suppose keep the TNT stuff. Personally, I wouldn't keep the TNT stuff.

Radius Arms just shouldn't even be mentioned...I guess. Keep your TNT stuff before going to radius arms.

TNT is radius arms and I'm more than happy with those at this point, Maybe change it later but not now> i need to take a little care that i can build this thing and get it ready before summer. Tired of yr andfter yr going by and not getting out there!

6.) Just ditch the rear hatch. If you end up doing much work back there you're going to ditch it anyways. To me...either ditch all the doors and hatch...or keep them all.

7.) Narrowing the front end while not difficult...is a lot more work and perseverance than most think...especially for it not to look like ass. If I were keeping a full body...I'd narrow it I guess. Though...at times it seems like a lot of work for little gain in the long run.

I plan on tube doors but will problem run stock doors in the winter!

Yeah...but at that point you also had a fully body and thing to "protect".

Once you start coming to the dark side...all bets are off There's a difference between winching through parts of a trail...and driving the entire thing.

If you want the D44/9" to last, I would try and shoot for 4k lbs. or under with the Jeep. It's doable, but not easy. You lost most any and all creature comforts at that point.

I'd always be worrying about the D44 is my issue.

Seems to me a good trussed 44 with RVC shafts would hold up pretty well..... am I way off base? I plan to build a truss from inner c to inner c with a integrated dif cover to go with!

 

[jdxj]

Re: Jd's UglyBuggy Build

Yea I may just stick with the 231 for the very short term then go to an atlas ASAP.

Now that you mention it i was always pretty happy with the COG when i was at 5-5.5 and if i don't go crazy on the cage that'll help keep the weight low too

never even thought about making the hatch removable all together thats a hell of an idea!:loveu::loveu::loveu:

 

[DutchVDub]

Re: Jd's UglyBuggy Build

I personally see no reason the D44 wouldn't hold up with the upgraded knuckles, RCV's, and Synergy ball-joints as long as you keep the weight down and the throttle control good. I didn't break the Waggy D44 in my 92 XJ running 36" Iroks and its was all stock minus the gears.

I agree on skipping the coils and going straight to air chocks or coilovers. I disagree with the 2" variants being too weak for your rig. I think 2.5" is overkill for most rigs. That's what they run on Ultra4 rigs for Christ's sake. Unless you plan on running 400hp+ and bouncing over rocks at full throttle I think the 2" versions will be fine. If the 2" aren't going to save you a lot of money then screw it and go big, otherwise I wouldn't be too worried.

I like the idea of doing like RCMan's except cut everything off after the C-pillar. Seal it off with the hatch and tube the rest.

Either keep the TNT up front or go 3-link w panhard for the front.

 

[jdxj]

Jd's UglyBuggy Build

Lol ima a dumb ass I just went to get the spec sheet for the air shocks and they are 2.5" Walker Evans not 2" so that settles that! I may have to rethink the coils out front? Probly right more trouble than it's worth! I can always use those on my daughters rig that ill do once mines done!

 

[DutchVDub]

Re: Jd's UglyBuggy Build

Just depends on how much work you're doing up front. If you want to keep it simple and are happy with the TNT Y-link up front then just get lower coils and good shocks.

 

[freerider15]

Re: Jd's UglyBuggy Build

I disagree with the 2" variants being too weak for your rig. I think 2.5" is overkill for most rigs. That's what they run on Ultra4 rigs for Christ's sake. Unless you plan on running 400hp+ and bouncing over rocks at full throttle I think the 2" versions will be fine. If the 2" aren't going to save you a lot of money then screw it and go big, otherwise I wouldn't be too worried.

I would have to whole heartedly from personal experience and the experiences of countless people on Pirate, CO4x4, etc...2" just isn't enough for a rig like most run. Every single person I've known that has run 2" coilovers or air shocks ended up switching out. While the 2.0's "worked," they didn't work all that well (lots of floppy rigs). The 2.5's are far more tunable since with 2.0's your nearing the max of their weight capabilities. I've heard this straight from those who make the shock's mouths as well. Ultra4 guys also have triple bypass shocks...that tend to cost more than the coilovers themselves

Go looks around Pirate, Colorado4x4, etc. and you'll rarely see people running 2.0's unless they got them for next to free.

The difference in cost between a 2.0 and 2.5 is marginal...so just makes sense to be one and done with it and have more tunability as well.

Me...I just went with ORI's

 

[freerider15]

Re: Jd's UglyBuggy Build

Lol ima a dumb ass I just went to get the spec sheet for the air shocks and they are 2.5" Walker Evans not 2" so that settles that! I may have to rethink the coils out front? Probly right more trouble than it's worth! I can always use those on my daughters rig that ill do once mines done!

Well that solves that

Definitely trust what Dutch and I say...and just go straight to air shocks or coilovers up front right away. You will be very thankful in the future once you realize you like having tunability, less mounting points and therefore more room..and don't have to go cutting stuff back off, getting it all in place, mocked up, etc.

 

[jdxj]

Re: Jd's UglyBuggy Build

Just depends on how much work you're doing up front. If you want to keep it simple and are happy with the TNT Y-link up front then just get lower coils and good shocks.

I love my TNT y link, not sure why id wanna get rid of it????? am i missing something on that?

I'm planning to redo the entire front end whether I use coils or air shocks I plan on building shock hoops motor cage and tube fenders, and maybe narrowing the front.


I see no reason to ditch the TNT links just cause they're radius arms? they work well and have never let me down except for dropping the coils out all the time LOL but thats not their fault!

 

[jdxj]

Re: My Turn

I liked the 107" WB on my YJ and several of the guys I know with hard core rigs run the same WB. Longer WB's are getting more popular with the JKU's and for the stability when climbing tall ledges but it really just depends on your terrain of choice. The XJ's 102-3" WB already works pretty well but a few more inches is helpful. (<--- HaHa, that's what she said. )

OK so then stretch the rear? that'd be a LOT easier

 

[jdxj]

Re: Jd's UglyBuggy Build

Well that solves that

Definitely trust what Dutch and I say...and just go straight to air shocks or coilovers up front right away. You will be very thankful in the future once you realize you like having tunability, less mounting points and therefore more room..and don't have to go cutting stuff back off, getting it all in place, mocked up, etc.

Well 2 things make me tempted to keep the coils,

1 I already have the remote res WE shocks.

2 My buddy/ customer that i built the ultra 4 rig for thinks the coils are "more stable, more drivable, and will climb better"

I trust him but he does tend to do things a lot different than the norm, he runs Ultra 4 with a 4 banger and a buggy thats only about 2500lbs.




BTW one of you mods need to change the title or at least take the UGLY out remember I know where you all live. :explosion:explosion:explosion

 

[DutchVDub]

Jd's UglyBuggy Build

If you're doing that much work up front then I would ditch the coils.

Somebody just mentioned ORI's and those really appeal to me but I have no personal experience with them.

A lot of people dislike Radius arms as they tend to bind at the axle and can limit flex or start tearing mounts off when flexing them hard. I myself am not against them, but I do feel a 3-link or triangulated 4-link is better.

Radius arms are also more prone to unloading on a steel climb under power.

If you're happy with them keep them, you can always change it later. It wouldn't be hard to take the upper links off the main arms and run a separate upper control arm back to the frame as a way to convert it to a 3-link either.

 

[freerider15]

Re: Jd's UglyBuggy Build

If you're doing that much work up front then I would ditch the coils.

Somebody just mentioned ORI's and those really appeal to me but I have no personal experience with them.

A lot of people dislike Radius arms as they tend to bind at the axle and can limit flex or start tearing mounts off when flexing them hard. I myself am not against them, but I do feel a 3-link or triangulated 4-link is better.

Radius arms are also more prone to unloading on a steel climb under power.

If you're happy with them keep them, you can always change it later. It wouldn't be hard to take the upper links off the main arms and run a separate upper control arm back to the frame as a way to convert it to a 3-link either.

Yup, I mentioned them...but they are very pricey (about the same as a coilover, air bump, and swaybar) and lead time is a couple months.

I second what Dutch said on the radius arms.

Well 2 things make me tempted to keep the coils,

1 I already have the remote res WE shocks.

2 My buddy/ customer that i built the ultra 4 rig for thinks the coils are "more stable, more drivable, and will climb better"

I trust him but he does tend to do things a lot different than the norm, he runs Ultra 4 with a 4 banger and a buggy thats only about 2500lbs.

Ummm, me thinks you should stop listening to this "Ultra4" guy as it seems he doesn't really know much...whether or not he "races Ultra4".

Coils compared to something like coilovers...is like comparing leafs to coils...but even more of a difference. Coils are NOT more stable, NOT more driveable, and do NOT climb better :laugh:

Coils like to push back on the sprung weight not matter the condition, like to unseat, aren't "tuneable", etc.

I'll keep telling ya...just because you happen to have some remote resi shocks...doesn't mean you shouldn't try just selling them to help pay for something else. It's your build and do what you will with it...but you'll find out the hard way Dutch and I are giving solid advice to skip the coils up front and go with C/O's or airshocks and be done with it, especially if you are going 4 link and air shocks in the rear. Hell, might as well put leaves up front (that's actually not so much of a joke).

Going coils on a build like your talking is a bandaid that eventually you'll want to rip off...and put the real thing in there.

As far as the radius arms...the reason I would ditch them is because to me...if you're going to go the effort...a 3-link will give you far better characteristic both on and offroad. 3-links can be built to be adjustable and unload a LOT less than radius arms on steep climbs.

For what you could probably sell the Y-link kit for, you could pay for most of your materials if not all for a 3-link.

Oh and I've got a whole bunch of never run 2.63" Ballistic Joints for sale...enough for a rear 4-link and front 3-link if you're interested

 

[Fred]

Re: Jd's UglyBuggy Build

BTW one of you mods need to change the title or at least take the UGLY out remember I know where you all live. :explosion:explosion:explosion[/QUOTE]

Say, aren't we sensitive. It's done, Wendy.

 

[jdxj]

Re: Jd's UglyBuggy Build

BTW one of you mods need to change the title or at least take the UGLY out remember I know where you all live. :explosion:explosion:explosion

Say, aren't we sensitive. It's done, Wendy. [/QUOTE]

LOL Thanks Fred, Ive got a feeling you weren't the one that changed it in the first place though! :eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:



I think theres a short Mexicano at fault for that!:confused1:confused1:confused1


And Fred it was meant more in jest than it came across after the Jack wore off!

 

[jdxj]

Re: Jd's Buggy Build

Thanks a lot guys for the advice Im gonna give it some real hard thought about the airshocks and Im leaning that way, linda always was thats one reason i wanted to ask some other folks!

I plan on getting rolling and start building in the next week or so! I'll keep posting here!