tires splayed out?

[BillR]

I don't know if that's the correct terminology, but the bottom of the front tires stick out a little farther than the tops. Is this normal?
The Jeep tracks fine and doesn't pull at all. The tires don't seem to be wearing unevenly, although I just noticed this today. (after some hard wheeling) No, I didn't jump it!
I did flex it out pretty good, and had a tire in the air a few times.
I checked the tire with a level, and it's almost a quarter of a bubble off. The strange thing is that BOTH sides are off the same amount.
I think this is the camber adjustment, and doesn't seem to be adjustable on a solid-axle vehicle.
Am I worried about nothing?

BillR

#613

 

[RCP Phx]

That would also explain your noise!Loading the bearings off center is not a good thing.

 

[BillR]

That would also explain your noise!Loading the bearings off center is not a good thing.

So what do you think is up? A bent housing wouldn't cause BOTH sides to be off the same amount, would it?
(maybe if it was bent right in the center...?)
How can I tell if the housing's bent?

 

[MaXJohnson]

If ya haven't been out jumpin' buses, odds are your problem is in the ball joint or unit bearing. First thing to do is quit trying to check your junk with a bubble level.

Get a decent angle finder or have it checked at an alignment shop. 1/2° of negative camber is within reason. Any more than that and you should find out what the problem is.

 

[Eagle]

First, check the hub/bearing assemblies to be sure they weren't damaged. Then, if they are okay, check the upper and lower ball joints. One of the guys in the NAC was constantly complaining when I talked to him on the phone that his front tires were splayed. I stopped by one Saturday and found him changing a bad hub. Got it all done, put the tire back on, shook it, and it wobbled -- a lot. Ball joint time. While we were at it, we did uppers and lowers on both sides to be safe. That fixed it.

If neither of those is your problem, park on a known-to-be-level surface and put a short level on the bottom of each axle tube. Be sure tire pessure is equal when you do this or it'll skew the readings.

 

[BillR]

, park on a known-to-be-level surface and put a short level on the bottom of each axle tube. Be sure tire pessure is equal when you do this or it'll skew the readings.

I JUST thought of that and did it. The tubes are dead level! The hubs are BRAND new. The ball joints only have 47K on them. Is that normal for them to go that soon?
I do have knuckles from an older (89) XJ on my 2001. Are the camber specs different?
Thanks for the help!!

 

[Eagle]

Mileage is immaterial -- some replacements are junk. Jack up the front and shake the front wheels to see if there is play in the ball joints. It may help to use an assistant. One shakes the wheel, holding it at the 12:00 and 6:00 o'clock positions, while the other person watches the ball joints and puts a hand on them to feel for any movement.

 

[sidriptide]

a long pry bar or jack handle under the tires and lifted up and down will help with checking the ball joints.... a lil leverage can show smaller amounts of wear than just your hands...

 

[BillR]

Mileage is immaterial -- some replacements are junk. Jack up the front and shake the front wheels to see if there is play in the ball joints. It may help to use an assistant. One shakes the wheel, holding it at the 12:00 and 6:00 o'clock positions, while the other person watches the ball joints and puts a hand on them to feel for any movement.

I guess my main question is why are BOTH sides showing the same amount of negative camber? I wouldn't think that both sets of ball joints took a dump at the same time...

 

[simonsxj]

I had an MJ with the same problem (it was Rob Pattersons old truck) when I put a set of 35's on it it looked worse. Turns out all it was was the tire bulge. Take a length of steel that will sit on the wheel, not the tire (tires bulge at the bottom), then put a level on that, I'll take bets that you will find they are fine, especially if there is no movement in them. Eyes can be a pain some times, don't let the tire fool you into thinking that you have a problem.

 

[BillR]

I had an MJ with the same problem (it was Rob Pattersons old truck) when I put a set of 35's on it it looked worse. Turns out all it was was the tire bulge. Take a length of steel that will sit on the wheel, not the tire (tires bulge at the bottom), then put a level on that, I'll take bets that you will find they are fine, especially if there is no movement in them. Eyes can be a pain some times, don't let the tire fool you into thinking that you have a problem.

I checked it on the sides of the tires, and also on the surface of the center cap. Same result...

 

[BillR]

I did a few more checks today...
I grabbed the tire at 12 and 6 o'clock, and had a VERY SLIGHT bit of movement. However, there was no difference in the measurement with the weight off the tire. I would think ball joints would return to static with no weight on the wheel. The movement didn't seem to be in the ball joints at all. It seemed to be from the hubs! I pulled the pin and tightened them up a little more (200 ft #), and it helped a little.

 

[Eagle]

?????

You are confused about how these guys work. The front hub/bearing is an assembly. It should have zero play without torquing the nut -- the nut just holds the axle in place and keeps everything together. Also, you can't check the ball joints for play with weight on them. I specifically said to jack it up and grab the tire at the 6:00 and 12:00 o'clock positions.

If you have ANY play in your front hubs, they are nearing failure and should be replaced. Over-torquing the axle nut is not the answer.

 

[BillR]

?????

You are confused about how these guys work. The front hub/bearing is an assembly. It should have zero play without torquing the nut -- the nut just holds the axle in place and keeps everything together. Also, you can't check the ball joints for play with weight on them. I specifically said to jack it up and grab the tire at the 6:00 and 12:00 o'clock positions.

If you have ANY play in your front hubs, they are nearing failure and should be replaced. Over-torquing the axle nut is not the answer.

I guess I was unclear. I DID jack the wheel up while doing the check for play.. There was NO weight on the wheel.
I'm having trouble believing it's the hubs because these units are brand new, with less than 200 miles on them! I installed them NEW 2 weeks ago.

 

[Eagle]

Then it's the ball joints, or else you didn't measure the angle of the wheels accurately. You can't measure the angle off the tires -- you have to measure from the wheels. Center caps don't count, either -- they may or may not be "true" to the plane of the rim and hub.

 

[BillR]

:flamemad:
It WAS the !@#$%& HUBS! I JUST got these things installed 2 weeks ago.
I replaced the calipers tonight, so I checked the play with the rotor off. It was still there. So for grins, I swapped the hub with one of my spares. (it has 140K miles on it!) NO MORE PLAY! NONE. NADA. ZIP!
They were BOTH doing the same thing. Kind of eliminates a bad one, huh? A bad batch??
There's a certain mail-order parts place that WILL hear from me tomorrow!

 

[BillR]

The parts guy was pretty cool about it. They're going to replace them as soon as I send them back.
As expected. they've never seen this before...

 

[MaXJohnson]

There's a handfull of parts that are better to get from the dealer even though the price is hefty. Unit bearings are on that list. Good luck with the replacements.