Oil still not getting to the rockers.

[Spanky414]

Continuing from this thread.

Changed the oil and now the engine ticks.


Brief recap:

Changed oil and filter with same types as in engine before change.
Drove about 35kms home after oil change.
Next day engine was ticking like mad.
Put in some seafoam and drove it a bit more.
Ticking calmed down but new puffing noise started.
Pulled valve cover and found pushrod pushed up threw intake rocker on 4th cylinder.
And a horrible mess.

Pulled the rockers and pushrods (alot of the rockers oil holes were plugged) and cleaned them.
Plugged the oil return holes and vacumed, scrubed and scraped the head and rocker cover clean.

Reassembled rockers and pushrods, oiling the top and bottom of each pushrod, top of valve stem and pivot.
There was some crud on the top of some of the lifters so I blew some cleaner and compressed air down to try to clean them off before putting in the pushrods.

Started it up and all is quiet and I'm getting decent oil pressure. But still barely any oil. Not even a trickle just enough that some of the oil holes in the rockers are a tad wet after a couple minutes of running and reving up. Some are totally dry. None of them oiled enough for the oil to run down into the pivot area.

So I'm not sure where to go from here.

 

[XJ Buzzard]

With that much gunk in there I wouldn't be surprise if some of it fell down into the lower part of the engine.

chris

 

[Spanky414]

I'm sure some did as I could see some when I looked down to inspect the lifters and make sure they were clear.

Thats why I used a vacuum as much as possible and blew at the lifters with compressed air to try to knock off any crap.

But I would have thought at least some of the rockers would start oiling a decent amount.

I'm not getting any lifter noise so I figure they are getting oil and keeping the pushrods and rockers adjusted properly. Just not pumping oil like they should.

Do lifter pump oil or just pass it along?

I'm figuring some of the scaley (that stuff under the valve cover was actually dry not very wet or oily) crap made it in to them but can't make it out. This stuff was really on the rockers so I'm not sure any sort of flush is going to break it down.

 

[RichP]

OH man, thats nasty looking, I'd pull the lifters and replace them, remove and clean them at the least by soaking in solvent for a week or so. Judging by the engine top the bottom is probably pretty nasty too.

 

[Spanky414]

Yeah if I was going to do all that work though I'm thinking of just swaping engines.

I have a similar milage engine from my parts jeep that I think was taken better care of.

I was just wondering if anyone out there has had luck with a flush getting the lifters passing oil before.

 

[RichP]

I think you would have to hookup and external pump and push almost pure solvent thru it so you could pressurize the lifters and get solvent flowing them which would hopefully force out the sludge thats in them. Running a 50/50 mix of kero and oil might do it or 50/50 mix of ATF and oil might do it too. You would need to disolve the sludge not break it loose though, I have not done any internals on the 2.5 but can you get the lifters out without pulling the head ?

 

[8Mud]

Did you try blowing through the push rods before you put them back in?

 

[dizzymac]

Dang...thats as nasty as my ex-wife.

 

[Gerr]

My 4.0 had a simular problem I had to get a new head. the oil pasages were plugged up so bad that the solvent I had couldnt desolve it after 3 weeks of soaking. Now I make sure to use seafoam or other type of engine flush every 3rd oil change to keep things clear. also my bottom end has cleaned up substancially since then and my oil pressure is back up in the 35-40 range at hot idle.

 

[Spanky414]

Oh yeah the pushrods were spotless before I put them in if thats what you mean.

I left them soaking in a pad of varsol for a week. Then I scrubbed all the baked on oil off the outside and ran a pipe cleaner through them multiple times. Then right before install I sprayed some tool & parts cleaner through them and then compressed air.

All but one or 2 of them are spinning.

I drained some oil just now and put in a liter of ATF and ran it for about 25 minutes, reving it up a couple times and running it at and above idle for periods. It was at about 25 psi at idle and sounds pretty damn smooth. If I had the valve cover on I wouldn't suspect a thing.

Still not even a trickle, which would probably be good enough for me.

Yes you have to pull the head to get at the lifters, and of course thats alot of fun.

As far as I know you can run a 4.0 oil pump through the distibutor hole just like a SB chevy. So I guess I could just fill the crankcase with the solvent of choice and run the pump with a drill but with none of them oiling I'm thinking the lifters probly need to be taken apart and cleaned out to start working.

 

[Spanky414]

My 4.0 had a simular problem I had to get a new head. the oil pasages were plugged up so bad that the solvent I had couldnt desolve it after 3 weeks of soaking. Now I make sure to use seafoam or other type of engine flush every 3rd oil change to keep things clear. also my bottom end has cleaned up substancially since then and my oil pressure is back up in the 35-40 range at hot idle.

Which oil passages do you mean? The ones the pushrods come up through or something lower on the block? Did you have to change or clean out your lifters?

 

[Gerr]

Basicly EVERY oil (Previouse owner used penzoil since day one) passage I had was gummed up uber bad replacing the head was the only fix I could do to solve the starved rocker problem. I cant really say which one it was for sure that caused the problem but i tried solvent, bottle brush, scrapers, picks, and a whole lot of air pressure and couldnt get things cleaned up enough for my satisfaction (my engine had about 200,000 miles at the time). I did replace the lifters as a percaution so that might have helped things too but they did clean up pretty well in any case.

 

[JJacobs]

I would have serious second thoughts about continuing to use that engine. Think what the crankcase looks like. Oil that looks like that hasn't been doing its job in the engine and rod knock is just around the corner.

Sorry for the doom and gloom, I'd just recommend not wasting your time with repairing that, short of a full rebuild.

Also- the most likely reason for the pushrod incident is a valve hanging in the guide. Lubrication failure again.

 

[Dr. Dyno]

I would have serious second thoughts about continuing to use that engine. Think what the crankcase looks like. Oil that looks like that hasn't been doing its job in the engine and rod knock is just around the corner.

Sorry for the doom and gloom, I'd just recommend not wasting your time with repairing that, short of a full rebuild.

Also- the most likely reason for the pushrod incident is a valve hanging in the guide. Lubrication failure again.

I totally agree with all of the above. That engine is NASTY. Don't waste your time trying to bandaid fix it because there's probably so much grunge inside the crankcase that trouble is just around the corner anyway. Only a complete teardown, clean-up, and rebuild of the engine (replacing piston rings, rod/main bearings, oil pump, timing set, lifters) will cure the problem and it'll give your engine a new lease of life. Order the parts in advance (you'll need a full engine teardown gasket set and new freeze plugs (x6 for the block, x1 for the head) and then you can do the job in a weekend. Since the head will be off, it'll be an opportunity to get the valves/valve seats cleaned up and install new valve stem oil seals. You can even port it if you want to gain a few ponies.

 

[Spanky414]

Yeah I figured it was a lost cause.

Lots of people are telling me to do extream flushes like lots of diesel and stuff but I figure if the lifters arn't flowing then they arn't going to get any solvent into them anyways, I bet there is tons of crap in them.

I'll start a new thread about my engine swap.