New to NAXJA / Trouble separating tranny from engine

[jasunb]

Hey Guys!

This is my first cherokee. i bought an 88 that looks to be in pretty good shape except the engine is a little loose. i purchased a create motor and am in the process of pulling the old engine.

As many of you are well aware, there are two e12 inverted torx screws at the top of the bell housing that need to be removed to separate the engine from the tranny. - one came off fine, the other was pretty well boogered when i got to it. maybe the previous owner used the wrong tool on it- i don't know.

i have the correct torx wrench and sockets- but no luck. any ideas? in past years i worked on old BMWs and i always pulled the engine with the tranny. is that a viable option?

thoughts? help? moral support? i'm at wits end here- but at least my fridge is still full of beer...

Thanks guys

jason

 

[souske]

If you pull the tcase, hood, and header panel, the motor and trans can be pulled as a unit.

 

[jasunb]

that may be what i have to do. i already pulled the head off of the motor in order to try to get better access to the bolts.. what do you mean by 'header panel'?

thanks for you reply

 

[ChiXJeff]

It's the piece in front of the radiator, across the front of the XJ. I've pulled motors without even removing the hood.

 

[souske]

With the trans still attached? Hats off to you

I had to get a couple fat roommates on the cherrypicker to counterbalance the engine/ trans

 

[jasunb]

OK let me rephrase my question : is it reasonable to remove the engine and the tranny at the same time? is this recommended?

my other alternatives are to keep trying on the stuck bolt, or take a cold chisel to it- this may damage my transmission and will likely leave a stud in the old block so it's a last resort.

 

[kastein]

I've done it, in fact I've only pulled them separately once and would probably pull them together if I re-did that swap.

Buy a load leveler bar - the harbor freight one works well. I attach one chain to the rearmost head stud on the driver side and the other goes on either one of the AC compressor bracket bolts on the block, or if I am leaving the AC compressor mounted, I put it under one of the bolts holding the compressor down. You can come damn close to balancing the drivetrain with the leveler cranked all the way to the back of the motor and cranking it all the way to the front tips the rear of the drivetrain down enough to go down into the trans tunnel with a bit of convincing. Have a buddy handy and make sure you have a pretty tall engine hoist, the harbor freight one with the 1 ton capacity (iirc, it's their smaller model) will do it no sweat with the arm at full extension. It's only rated for 500 pounds at that length, but handled a 4.0/AW4/NP231 combo more times than I can remember.

I would suggest you unbolt the transfer case and cap off the rear of the transmission to make this easier for yourself. It will be way easier to get in and out of the vehicle and also lighter. Also remove the starter motor or it will catch on the passenger motor mount bracket on the frame.

Actually, that gives me an idea, you may be able to get a better angle on that bolt (dremel the head off?) if you pull the motor mounts and lower the motor down a bit. Be prepared to have the two suddenly come apart when the bolt is out, I strongly suggest placing a support under the front of the transmission, and make sure you remove the torque converter to flexplate bolts before doing this, so the torque converter stays seated in the transmission. There are 4, they are 15mm hex heads and a flex head gearwrench will do wonders for your sanity.

 

[jasunb]

thanks for the responses guys. hearing it from you guys gives me a little more confidence. my plan is to try to lower the motor a bit to gain more access first- if that fails, i'll pull the tranny with the motor.

i'll report back when the motor is out.

cheers!

 

[kastein]

If your new motor doesn't come with alignment dowels in it on the two "wings" at the bottom back of the block, make sure you transfer them over. Might want to order some new from the dealer, they tend to come out a bit mangled and a pair costs less than a sixpack. Part number J400 5148.

Also, clean the hell out of the block, bellhousing, and blockoff plate / inspection cover mating surfaces, and torque the bellhousing to engine fasteners to spec. I've seen them loosen up and what it does isn't pretty. The spec is 28 foot-pounds, I actually usually torque them a bit more than that. Uppers are 3/8-16 UNC thread, I believe the shank is 2" long but you should verify that before buying new bolts, get grade 8 and use a 5/16 grade 8 washer under each since the new bolts will likely be hex head and won't have the extra-large flanged head the factory bolts have. If a 5/16 washer won't fit over the 3/8 bolts you get (some washers run a little small from what I've seen) go ahead and use a 3/8" one.

 

[BulletMaker]

The option I've used in the past when trying to get to those bolts is put a transmission jack underneath the trans, unbolt the cross member (transmission support) and then lower it very slowly... This will give you a better angle and clearance to those bolts and should make them easier to remove. If the head is buggered (like they usually are) it should give you enough room to get in there with a small pneumatic die grinder and chop the head off the bolt.

If you are going to try dropping the T-case and pulling the trans out with the engine, that load leveling bar makes all the difference. The AW4 is actually a surprisingly light transmission, but the T-case weighs a ton. I remember when I pulled a replacement T-case and transmission... The two weighed about 250lbs, That T-case is about 175lbs of that...

 

[djgrayxj]

Note from DJ
BIG NOTE: Remove these two bolts first to avoid any chance of binding which will make it even more difficult for removal.

 

[ChiXJeff]

175lbs of that...

Drop a hundred lbs. from that, it's under 70, but if you're pressing it off your chest, it's a handful.

 

[kastein]

Agreed. And with the torque converter I think an aw4 is at least 100, maybe even 150 or so.