Home Network questions

[WB9YZU]

Imagine a network that consists of a DSL Modem, a Netgear Gateway/Router at 192.168.1.1 running in Gateway mode. That is running a number of PCs with static IPs. On port 1, there is a Cisco Wireless Gateway/Router at 192.168.2.1 on a static IP running in Gateway mode.

All PCs have WAN access, and that works nicely.

On the Netgear part of the Network (.168.1.1) there is WindowsXP file and printer sharing. That works fine.

Problem: I would like to see the shared files a Laptop on the Cisco side of the Network, but I can't.

Question: Is Windows file sharing restricted to the same IP range, or should I be able to share files though a Gateway?

 

[Coastie]

IIRC, CIFS and SMB only share within the same local IP range.

 

[ChiXJeff]

That's not quite right, Coastie, but for a usual home network, it ends up that way.

A 192.168.z.t address usually has a 255.255.255.0 subnet mask, and that puts the wireless on a different subnet from the wired equipment. Without WINS servers configured between the subnets, none of the Windows shares will see [easily] between subnets.

You should be able to specify \\192.168.z.t as a target, and see what's on that machine.

 

[JeepFreak21]

IP/Port Forwarding FTW!

Set up the Netgear router to forward requests for 192.168.1.1 (for a specific port if you want) to the print server. Voila!

Billy

 

[Ralph]

IP/Port Forwarding FTW!

Set up the Netgear router to forward requests for 192.168.1.1 (for a specific port if you want) to the print server. Voila!

Billy

What model Cisco device do you have?

 

[WB9YZU]

That's not quite right, Coastie, but for a usual home network, it ends up that way.

A 192.168.z.t address usually has a 255.255.255.0 subnet mask, and that puts the wireless on a different subnet from the wired equipment. Without WINS servers configured between the subnets, none of the Windows shares will see [easily] between subnets.

You should be able to specify \\192.168.z.t as a target, and see what's on that machine.

Jeff, the Wireless is on the same subnet 255.255.255.0
When I examine my IPconfig it tells me that the IP of the laptop I am using at the moment is 192.168.2.102 subnet 255.255.255.0 with a Gateway of 192.168.2.1. I can pin any machne on 192.168.1.X

However, I can not ping 192.168.2.102 from a machine on 192.168.1.X

 

[Ralph]

Jeff, the Wireless is on the same subnet 255.255.255.0
When I examine my IPconfig it tells me that the IP of the laptop I am using at the moment is 192.168.2.102 subnet 255.255.255.0 with a Gateway of 192.168.2.1. I can pin any machne on 192.168.1.X

However, I can not ping 192.168.2.102 from a machine on 192.168.1.X

That's because the gateway you are using on the 192.168.1.1 network goes to the internet not the .2.1 subnet.

What model wireless device are you using?

 

[ChiXJeff]

Uh, not quite, Ron.

A subnet mask is used to figure out what other addresses are directly accessible from here. With a 255.255.255.0 mask, 192.168.2.102 can directly talk to anything in 192.168.2.t. Anything outside of 192.168.2.t will go through a gateway first, and pings will cheerfully do that.

Your last statement suggests that something else is going on, probably a firewall issue in your gateway.

 

[ChiXJeff]

Ralph reminded me of something..... you've got *TWO* gateway addresses on your network, 192.168.1.something, and 192.168.2.something.

 

[WB9YZU]

...and? Please complete the thought.

Ralph, the Wireless is a WRT54G, and I can't remember the model of the Netgear Gateway. The BIOS is simular.

Last night I had all the firewalls down, including the Windows ones, only one way Ping.

I've tried looking on-line for resources to educate myself, however, I'm either using the wrong keywords or something because all the Windows Network models I see use only one Gaetway/Router.

How would a WINS Server work if it can't see though the Gateway?

 

[ChiXJeff]

Ah.... now the picture gets a bit clearer.... the label may say Cisco, it's a Linksys.

Simplify your configuration down to a single network, I really doubt you need more than one.

Reconfigure your WRT54G onto the same network as the wired, and use one of the LAN ports. You won't need the wired WAN port at all. The mode won't really matter, because you'll only be working with the clean side of the device.

Disable all but 1 of your DHCP sources. If it's configured for it, leave it in your Netgear.

FWIW, this is basically the configuration I run at home.

 

[ChiXJeff]

Re: WINS communications.

Hosts in a single TCP/IP network can communicate directly with each other, as well as receive all broadcast traffic within that network. CIFS/SMB servers generally broadcast their availability so that every system local to them can find them. WINS came about specifically to allow systems across network boundaries to easily find each other.

To get from 1 network to another, a host will send traffic to a gateway first, which will relay it to the next gateway towards the destination. WINS servers will use this to exchange info with each other, and allow a system on 1 network to find a server on a remote network.

 

[WB9YZU]

Ah.... now the picture gets a bit clearer.... the label may say Cisco, it's a Linksys.

Simplify your configuration down to a single network, I really doubt you need more than one.

Reconfigure your WRT54G onto the same network as the wired, and use one of the LAN ports. You won't need the wired WAN port at all. The mode won't really matter, because you'll only be working with the clean side of the device.

Disable all but 1 of your DHCP sources. If it's configured for it, leave it in your Netgear.

FWIW, this is basically the configuration I run at home.

So what address do I set the LAN side of the Linksys/Cisco to? Right now it's set to 192.168.2.1 . If I set it to 192.168.1.1 won't I confuse the Netgear Gateway, or is it just me who's confused?

edit: I tried setting the Cisco 168.1.3 and it wouldn't take it. So I tried setting the WAN addy to DHCP and setting the LAN addy to 168.1.3 and now it's list locked up. Arrrrrg.

 

[kunaji]

I may be just as confused, but here's my take.

Set the router that's connected to the modem as 192.168.0.1. Connect the wireless AP to that router and make it's IP 192.168.0.2. This puts all your nodes into the same network instead of segmenting it into two networks. From there you can assign all your IPs so they are all in the same network.

When you put 192.168.1.1 as the IP for one router and 192.168.2.1 for the second, you just created another network. The only octet that can change without segmenting the network is the last one. You can use 192.168.0.1-255 and still be on the same network.

What I think is happening is the cisco side of the network using NAT. Putting the cisco side into the same subnet as the netgear would get rid of the cisco router using NAT and allow you to see past it. The NAT in the cisco router is using one IP address for all computers on the 192.168.2.xx portion of the network, as far as the netgear is concerned. The cisco is then assigning it's own IP addresses to the computers connected to it.

In short, put the cisco router in the same network (192.168.1.xxx and everything should work.

 

[WB9YZU]

So what address do I set the LAN side of the Linksys/Cisco to? Right now it's set to 192.168.2.1 . If I set it to 192.168.1.1 won't I confuse the Netgear Gateway, or is it just me who's confused?

edit: Me it appears, and still so. I did what you suggested and got the LAN to work. WAN operation dropped out (sigh).
There was a real good reason I set the Net up this way, and I'm beginning to remember it. XP has fun with the 168.1.1 Router and likes to ask for a new address and mess with the Router settings.

When I added Wireless to work with the work laptop on it's VPN connection, I didn't want to mess with the IP seetings and let the Wireless run in DHCP, but what came out of the Wireless was a Static IP.

It appears I'll have to just deal with the limitations of having two Gateways. I'll look into the WINS server idea, though I still have no idea how it's going to work. More reading needed...

kunjai-I see what you're saying. It sounds like what Jeff was saying. What I get is the Windows Network, but the WAN stops.

Too tired to play any futher with it tonight...

Appreciate the assistance. Ron

 

[Ralph]

Imagine a network that consists of a DSL Modem, a Netgear Gateway/Router at 192.168.1.1 running in Gateway mode. That is running a number of PCs with static IPs. On port 1, there is a Cisco Wireless Gateway/Router at 192.168.2.1 on a static IP running in Gateway mode.

All PCs have WAN access, and that works nicely.

On the Netgear part of the Network (.168.1.1) there is WindowsXP file and printer sharing. That works fine.

Problem: I would like to see the shared files a Laptop on the Cisco side of the Network, but I can't.

Question: Is Windows file sharing restricted to the same IP range, or should I be able to share files though a Gateway?

The picture is getting a little clearer. One more question. How many PC's are attached to the Netgear device?

 

[Ralph]

My thinking is that if you have 4 or fewer PC's patched into your Netgear device, you do not need it. Use the Linksys in it's place.

 

[RichP]

Pave the linksys over with DD-WRT and turn the 4 ports into vlans, turn the linksys into a real router.

 

[Ralph]

Pave the linksys over with DD-WRT and turn the 4 ports into vlans, turn the linksys into a real router.

Yeah, but I think the KISS principle might be best for this application.

 

[WB9YZU]

Now that I am more awake...

There is actually a point behind all the inane Network architecture.
That point is to prevent XP powered DHCP devices, like PCs and Laptops, from messing with the DSL IP. My experience has taught me that if I don't protect Gateway#1, XP starts playing, so everything that stays on the network became Static, including Gateway#2. Gateway #2 is set up to allow DHCP logins.

Everything works right, but I recently got my own (as opposed to the one I drag home from work) wireless laptop and wanted Windows sharing to work across Gateway#2 if possible.

Rich, it took me 3/4 of an hour to devour your single sentence, mainly because I has to research every other word

That tells me that I am less than knowledgeable about that with I wish to do and that what I really need is to find one of those "Idiot" books and RTFM as it were

Oh, and I never use the KISS principle if there is a more complicated and arcane way of going something LOL!