Harmonic Balancer & Belt Noise / Tracking

[J Rock]

I just wanted to post some information for future searchers regarding my experience with the harmonic balancer & belt noise / tracking.

Jeep: 2000 XJ 4.0, 84,000, Serp belt had about 5000 miles on it.

My problems were as follows:

1. Harmonic balancer seemed to have a SLIGHT wobble, it was very hard to conclude that this was factual even from underneath, it almost seemed like it could have been an optical illusion. It was NOT obvious like many other cases.

2. Second, the serp belt didnt track straight, the belt would move ever so slightly within the pulley system. The movement was the belt moving closer to the engine and then back away from the engine (still on the pulleys of course.) This occured in a rhythmic fashion...back and forth, back and forth.

3. Lastly, there was some kind of weird squeak going on with the accessory system, almost sounded like a bearing going out on the PS pump. The squeak occurred in a rhythmic fashion and seemed to be in time with the rhythmic of the belt movement listed in number 2. The noise was confirmed to be accessory related by removing the belt and running the engine BRIEFLY (dead cold, less than a minute) because the squeak was then non existent.


I naturally associated these three symptoms as one problem and assumed that the harmonic balancer must NOT be spinning perfectly straight, thus causing the belt to not track perfectly and in turn resulting in a belt squeak.

The only hitch to this theory was the fact that I thoroughly checked the balancer with a straight edge to try and see if any of the rubber portion was excessively protruding and could not find anything wrong. The pulley seemed extremely square using the straight edge. I did however notice small, TINY, cracks in the rubber. It was not something I would normally be alarmed about but considering the situation it gave cause to replace the balancer.

I used a factory balancer as I have head that some of the aftermarket ones don't fit quite right out of the box. I ended up buying my at the dealer for $100 because I needed it ASAP for a trip and they had one in stock, however I believe you can get one on parts.com for much cheaper.

NOTE: I found out at the dealer that XJ's make on or after (they dont know which) 2-11-00 have the new style harmonic balancer which does not use the "damper oil slinger." They no longer make the previous style harmonic balancer but provide a supersedence narrative for those switching to the new style:
"When replacing 33002920 W/ 33002920AB, tell tech to pull off the front cover and remove the damper oil slinger."
My XJ was made 2-14-00, so this did not apply to me.

The removal / install when quite well, I used the craftsman harmonic balancer / steering wheel remover and ordered a 1/2-20 4" long bolt with nuts from mcmaster.com to install.

After the install I put a new Gates belt on (I like Gates belts ) and started it up, all problems solved!

I noticed that the squeak was gone and that the belt now tracked straight (no movement.) I was also able to noticed that the harmonic balancer did seem to now track straighter, again it wasn't obvious.

I wanted to point out my experience because most of the information I have run accross leads you to believe that your harmonic balancer might be in OK shape if you dont have any rubber protruding and if there isnt an obvious wobble to it. Mine apparently needed to be replaced!

Pics of the old balancer:

 

[JNickel101]

Good writeup! I'm having very similar issues - slight wobble in the HB and no squeaking or belt movement yet - but I thought the other morning when it was a little cold that it squeaked a bit. I have a brand new Mopar HB, bolt and washer - and a new seal - just need to find time to take it apart. Any other tips for removal/install? About how long did it take - and did you have to take off your bumper and whole front clip?

Thanks!

 

[J Rock]

Nope didn't have to remove the clip or radiator. I just peeled back the splash shield, unbolted the tops of the fan shrouds so that I could pull them out of their bottom retainer clips and unscrewed the little transmission line support (strap) so that the transmission line in front of the balancer could be moved a bit.

I found that a ratchet works extremely well for preventing the balancer from turning while you are breaking the bolt loose / tightening it down. I took the fabric end of the strap that would thread into the ratchet and stuck it behind the balancer and pulled it through one of the balancer "spokes" so that it would come out the front. I then threaded that end into the ratchet and had the end hooks attached on the side of the jeep that was opposite to which way I was turning. There's all kinds of places under there to hook it up...get creative .

REMOVAL:

Once I got the crank bolt off I carefully sprayed a little PB Blaster on the seam of where the balancer and crank meet, I let that sit for about 30 min before I went at it with the puller.

When hooking up the puller be sure not to thread the balancer bolts (three) in too far... I didn't do this but I was careful as I have read about people doing this.

When you first start cranking on the puller it might be tight enough to turn the engine, in this situation I obviously didn't want to use the ratchet set up as Im trying to pull the balancer off. I found that getting a good grip on the balancer with one hand (to prevent it from turning) and yanking (YANK YANK) on the wrench for the puller with the other hand will allow you "get er unstuck."


INSTALLATION:

My crank key happened to be firmly in place (FSM calls for mopar silicone adhesive rubber in the slot of the crank before inserting the key,) since mine was already in place I didn't mess with it.

Before installing the new balancer I put a little engine assembly lube on the inside hub and put some engine oil on the outside of the hub where the seal will ride. You will be able to fit the new balancer onto the crankshaft just enough that it will stay on there, make sure you have it on straight.

Take your 4" long 1/2-20 bolt and thread a nut on it until its about an inch from the bolt head. Your going to need some washers after the nut (I used 7) and then after that you'll want the washer that is used with the crank bolt (so 8 total for me.) I applied assembly lube between all the washers and nut to eliminate some friction when installing. After you have this ready to go you will want to thread the bolt all the way into the crank. If you have to back the nut off so you that you can then do so, if not tighten the nut / washers up to the balancer after you have the bolt in all the way. The reason the washers are needed is because you want the nut to be sticking out enough from the balancer so that you can access it with a wrench correctly.

From here I just held the bolt head with one wrench and tightened the nut with the other, it went right on. Once its on all the way it will be obvious as you wont be able to turn the nut anymore and you will see that the balancer now lines up with the other pulleys.

Overall I think it took me about an hour and a half...

Hope all goes well!

 

[PhotographerMike]

NOTE: I found out at the dealer that XJ's make on or after (they dont know which) 2-11-00 have the new style harmonic balancer which does not use the "damper oil slinger." They no longer make the previous style harmonic balancer but provide a supersedence narrative for those switching to the new style:
"When replacing 33002920 W/ 33002920AB, tell tech to pull off the front cover and remove the damper oil slinger."
My XJ was made 2-14-00, so this did not apply to me.

Glad it went so well for you. What I did in my '89 is had a machine shop mill off the extra "nose" length to match the original. My timing chain cover didn't leak and I REALLY didn't want to pull the cover for no oil slinger!

 

[JNickel101]

Thanks for the further writeup! I'm still worried about reinstallation - your instructions are detailed but for the life of me, I just can't picture how to "press" the HB back on there - or where the bolt, nut and washers come into play with this. I've never messed with a HB puller before, so....

I just don't want to get the thing off and realize that the puller/installer doesn't come with everything I need.....

 

[blackdoutxj]

how do you know when a HB is bad?! will it make a noise?!

 

[wim hoppenbrouwers]

how do you know when a HB is bad?! will it make a noise?!

Hallo. In most cases , you can see the wobble and sometimes the rubber coming out hit and the chain cover. This will give a squeel sound.
There can be also an oilleak from the sealing.
Read the nice write up above. Nice job to do and not difficult.


'92XJwim

 

[sjkimmel99]

Good writeup.

Since this is about harmonic balancer replacement I'll add this note of caution. If the puller comes with a button that's supposed to press against the end of the crank to protect the threads in the hole check to make sure it's not so big it covers part of the balancer itself or you may end up like this with a chunk of the old balancer still on the crank.

Sure seemed like it was stuck on there good. Started hearing noises and figured it was about to pop loose. It was.

Dremmeled a slot in the chunk and split it off with a chisel. The bolt is there because I tried to use the puller against the bolt to get the broken piece off.

 

[wim hoppenbrouwers]

Good writeup.

Since this is about harmonic balancer replacement I'll add this note of caution. If the puller comes with a button that's supposed to press against the end of the crank to protect the threads in the hole check to make sure it's not so big it covers part of the balancer itself or you may end up like this with a chunk of the old balancer still on the crank.

Sure seemed like it was stuck on there good. Started hearing noises and figured it was about to pop loose. It was.

Dremmeled a slot in the chunk and split it off with a chisel. The bolt is there because I tried to use the puller against the bolt to get the broken piece off.

Hallo. Did you not forget to take the washer off before you installed the puller. The puller is pusching against the washer and so the balancer will collaps. I saw pictures of that a few weeks ago on the forum.

wim

 

[sjkimmel99]

No, didn't forget the washer. The puller I rented came with a metal disk intended to protect the crank snout and threads from the puller's central shaft. Unfortunately I didn't notice the disk was slightly larger than the diameter of the end of the crank and overlapped the balancer.

 

[J Rock]

I want to thank everyone for their input, there has been some useful information posted on here that will surely help anyone that runs into these problems in the future.

JNickel101, to help assist you I have taken a few more pictures that will hopefully help clarify the removal / installation procedure-

Here's a picture of the Craftsman HB Remover that I used. Note the cone shaped end piece, that is an attachment that comes with the remover, there is also a flat end that comes with it but I would definitely use the cone shaped one:

Here's what it will look like when you have the remover hooked up to the balancer, the 3 nickel plated bolts thread into the holes on the balancer and the large black bolt with the cone piece on the end will fit into hole were the crank bolt goes. With this specific set up you will have just enough room between the balancer and crossmember:

Here is the set up I used to install the new balancer, Im missing the crank bolt washer at the end of the washer stack because its already installed on the jeep. I like to use that washer against the balancer when installing because it has the right size hole to stay centered on the bolt and the outside diameter is large enough to spread out the installation load on the balancer hub. Remember to thread the bolt all the way into the crank before using the nut to push the balancer on!:

This next shot will show you why you want to use a stack of washers, keeps the nut away from the hub far enough so that you can access it with a wrench easily:

Hope this helps!

 

[GregGA]

Thanks J-Rock. Followed your guide and the install on my 87 went great.

BTW, I did not remove the oil slinger and the ATP HB from Rockauto is fine. HB is about ,125" farther out from the timing cover
than the original, but no belt tracking issues.

Thanks again for the write up and pictures. I couldn't have done it without these.

Greg

 

[87manche]

Thanks J-Rock. Followed your guide and the install on my 87 went great.

BTW, I did not remove the oil slinger and the ATP HB from Rockauto is fine. HB is about ,125" farther out from the timing cover
than the original, but no belt tracking issues.

Thanks again for the write up and pictures. I couldn't have done it without these.

Greg

totally sweet that you posted that.

I need to do the HB on my 87, and did not want to mess with my timing cover.

I think an 1/8 inch is acceptable, given that my betl still runs and doesn't squeak and the face of my HB is nearly hitting the mechanical fan. I would have never known it was bad except it started tearing belts down the length.

I may just take it down to the local machine shop and have them mill off the extra length.

 

[GregGA]

You're welcome, but buy a new one! They are not repairable and if
it grenades, you are looking at some major damages. Rockauto has them.
Stay away from Dorman.

 

[87manche]

You're welcome, but buy a new one! They are not repairable and if
it grenades, you are looking at some major damages. Rockauto has them.
Stay away from Dorman.

yeah, it's on the list of thinks to do before Winterfest, along with front suspension and fabricating a new rear suspension. At least my new leaf spring mounts will be here shortly so I can weld them to te frame.

 

[snowonweb]

I am about to pull the Harmonic Balancer on 92 xj 4.0 with the engine still in the car. I also have similar looking HB puller with a cone from AutoZone. My HB puller came with few different sets of 3-bolts for the puller but none of them seem to fit my Balancer. The 3 holes are all buggered up and the most I could probably get in is maybe 4 turns before it gets tighter and tighter. I am assuming it's probably different thread pitch.
So does anyone know what bolts size and pitch are needed for the original Harmonic Balancer. Note, my HB doesn't have double holes like the one in the picture above.

 

[wim hoppenbrouwers]

Hallo, I built my own balancer puller.
On my '92 Rig the sizes of the bolts are 5/16" UNC.

 

[snowonweb]

I got it off without major difficulties. Also got oil pan off and now looking for new HB and new Timing Chain set. I understand Dorman HB's are not recommended, is Phillips HB ok?
I will also replace cam sensor. any recommendations?

 

[PhotographerMike]

When I did my H.B. I discovered that almost all the aftermarket ones were distributed by Dorman and made in China. Pep Boys, Auto Zone, NAPA. Things may have changed by now, but I searched out a dealer than didn't want "list" + 25% for factory parts and bought one.

Mike

 

[snowonweb]

well I for HB the only alternative for dorman is phillips, available at AutoZone I think. I just learnt recently that NAPA parts are mostly crap.
As far as Timing Set goes, I do not see any recommendations so I am guessing NAPA or AutoZone it is.
One thing I do not understand is HB sleeve. When I picked up timing cover gasket I was asked if it's with sleeve or without. I got the one with sleeve just to learn (now) that I need to sleeve my Harmonic Balancer. Can anyone please shine some light on it for me.
Do I buy Harmonic Balancer that is sleeved? What exactly does it mean sleeved anyways?
I do not feel, I have a need for double timing chain set. Does clover make single chain sets and what's the part number? I cant seem to find single. I found double. Is it available at AutoZone or Advanced Auto Parts?

BTW. There is no timing chain tensioner in my jeep. The chain play is about inch? I am stunned.