Golden Mtn VS Transfer Case

[Team Willys]

So... apparently GM likes to eat transfer cases. Me and a few friends went back up there yesterday to ride again. Last trip we rode everything other than Bounty Hill and had zero breakage. Well, this trip was a lot muddier thanks to the rain, and even the moderate trails were pretty impossible. Betty did o-k in it, but I think thats more owed to good tires rather than the rig. Well, long story short, after realizing the "hard" trails were actually impossible, we resorted to some easier riding. We hit up the creek bed (trail 16) and was having a pretty good time crawling along through that. Throughout the day, the little Dana 18 wasn't very happy, the beating I was giving it to make it through the slop was causing issues and it started popping out of low range more than normal. Well, about halfway through the creekbed, I slammed into a rock hard and laid it on the floor. It popped out again and then that noise was followed by a lot of crunching... I had heard it before and knew that the low range gear set was done for. Not a huge deal. The Np435 has a deep 1st gear so I was able to keep wheeling in high range. Well, that was going ok until I decided it would be fun to try Hellavator. I had been able to get all 4 up on it before so I though it wouldn't be a big deal, even in high range. I got the front tires up on it and again, laid it on the floor. Pretty much as soon as the back tires hit, we heard a loud snap and then a lot of grinding again. It literally sounded like bolts in a meat grinder... nasty. I eased her off of the rock in reverse... and that's when I noticed quite a bit of Bettys blood on the rock. While aggressively loving Betty (In Tim's words; pulling hair, smacking ass, etc,) I apparently tore her hymen and split her open wide. Her t-case that is. Get your mind out of the gutter pervert! Haha, j-k. Anyway, I was amazed at the site of what was below the floor board awaiting my discovery! The Dana 18 split in half!

After getting home today I pulled her out and found the rest of the damage.

In fact, the only thing holding it together was the oil pan. When I took it off the whole thing fell apart.

Also after pulling the pan, the blown low range was obvious, and you could also see where it would chip the teeth when it popped out of gear.

And finally, something I was very disappointed to see:

That is a high dollar Novak intermediate shaft (1.125") that is supposedly hardened and A lot stronger than stock... already wearing and it has less than 1000 miles on it since I rebuilt it with all new bearings, seals, etc. Oh well... its all going in the trash. I am going to install a Dana 20 with a teralow and the Advance adapters 32 spine heavy duty output shaft conversion. I will also be replacing the trans with a newer NP435 and will be rebuilding it too. Im tired of having annoying trans/t-case issues.

 

[High2by]

Ouch!!

Not to worry, it'll be stronger than ever when you get done with it.

 

[Team Willys]

Yeah, considering its a "stock" part (just rebuilt and interlock pill removed for 2 low) it doesn't bother me that it broke. Its going to take quite a bit of work to do the 20, but it will all be worth it in the end! I will have a stronger case, a better gear set that's slightly lower, front dig, and a 32 spline rear output. Sounds much better to me.

 

[Mr.Shrek]

Hey the 3 piece case will sure make it easy to swap out those gears

 

[Team Willys]

Haha! That's awesome Glenn! Too bad I have no intentions whatsoever of putting an 18 back in. I've broken 2 gear sets just like that one... then the broke case sealed the deal. An 18 just simply cannot handle what I am trying to do.

 

[YJ-GENRAL]

well atleast im not the only one that had tranny issues coming from GM ouch dude, i guess your plans just got bumped up on the schedule

 

[Team Willys]

Yep... spent WAY TOO much money today, but in a couple of weeks Betty will have a Twin Sticked Dana 20 (yes that means front digs!!!) with a Teralow and 32 spline heavy duty output from AA, as well as 1/4" wall DOM Drive shafts front and rear. I ordered all of the parts today... Im still sore from the bill.

 

[PacificEd]

So did you get a Dana 20 t-case yet?

 

[jeepgeek2002]

Why not get Daddy to buy you a new one?

 

[YJ-GENRAL]

all future sarcastic comments shall be in comic sans and italicized

 

[wingnutooa]

lol where's the "like" button.

 

[Team Willys]

Well, Mark, just to clarify, my father is unemployed and my mom works her ass off to make ends meet. Now, that being said, they do try to pay for small things such as my cell phone bill and food when I eat at home. I pay for my car insurance, gas, food when Im not home, school, and all of my business expenses including the parts for Betty. My father has not given me a dime for anything on my Jeep or anything in my shop, and Im fine with that. I take lots of pride in the work I do, who I am, and what I am making of myself. I work hard for my money, and I will pay for what I do. So I paid for all of it (all together it was ~$1600 for everything needed including yokes for the driveshafts).

I did get a D20 today Ed, Mike owed me $50 or a 20, I told him I didn't care which and he gave me the 20. Its going to work out really nice, With a little work on the shift rails I will be able to re-use the D18 shifters for an easy twin stick conversion!

 

[256offroad]

sounds good tyler! when are you gonna load up and hit some parks down here my way?

 

[The Box]

Damn now that is some damage. Crazy that a u joint or something didn't let go before the case exploded. Still can't wait to see it in person.

 

[saybye]

GM loves to eat up transfer cases...

i feel your pain. haha hopefully ur doing better than me, i havent touched mine since i gernaded mine. getting the itch to ride next weekend though so its about time to get to work...

 

[Team Willys]

sounds good tyler! when are you gonna load up and hit some parks down here my way?

Eh... I don't know. I would like to try Gray Rock, and maybe Morris Mtn again, but Im not in any rush to be completely honest.

I did get the 20 cleaned up and tore down today, its a good thing I ordered a Teralow b/c it really didn't look all that great to be completely honest. I spent about 3 hours studying the shift rails and their operation and tried to figure out a combination that would allow front dig in high or low, but prevent the case from going into high and low at the same time (either front or rear in either range). Unfortunately, it just isn't doable. In stock configuration with both pills installed, you can only get front dig in low range. However, if you have both shifters in N and then you shift the rear to L, you can then shift the front to H... which, in my opinion is bad. I can prevent that by welding a spot on the rear shift rail, but then I would also have to grind 2 spots for me to be able to get the other selections I need. This would allow me to get front dig in H or L but, modding the rails that way would also allow for the rear to be in H and the front to be in L... also bad. The last and final option is to remove the pills altogether and say screw it. This would simplify assembly a lot and would allow me to pick whatever gear I want, but one stupid mistake on range selection and that 20 is toast... however, it can be shifted into Self Destruct mode even with stock rails and both pills... So what do you guys think??? What should I do?

I also pulled out the NP435 today... that was a real pain in the arse. Its tight haha. The only other excitement for the day was that the UPS man brought my driveshaft yokes so now I can build my own bombproof shafts. Tom Woods said they "couldn't" (which is just that they didn't want to because if I can do it so can they) and the price was too high for what I was getting. High angle had better options for durability but I don't think any driveshaft is worth $400, especially one without a Double cardan joint. Things will be coming together soon enough.

 

[YJ-GENRAL]

i say drop the pills, but it would be nice to have a "lock" when your in a specific config so that the other doesnt go into a gear that will self destruct it...

have you looked up any right ups on doing front dig on a 20? maybe someone else came up with a solution you havent thought of yet...

 

[thechief86]

any reason why you chose a dana 20? it seems like the 300's don't have those issues, and are just as common. or is the input different between the 2? for what you paid for the tera low and other stuff, you might have found a used atlas or stak on pirate...

 

[Team Willys]

Don't know if I mentioned it on here or not, but an Atlas/Stak will in no way work for my chassis. It is simply too small and they won't fit. Also, my adapter has the Dana 20/18 specific texas style bolt pattern so I would have to buy a different adapter to run a traditional 6 bolt style t-case. As far as the Dana 300, it would have the same shifting issues too I believe. Most people just pull the pills out, but I was trying to come up with a combo that prevents the "self destruct" mode. Heres a picture of the shift rail mods I could perform.

Blue marker is where to grind, white is where to add weld to prevent the pill from fitting there.

While this would allow me to have front dig in high and low, it would also allow for the rear to be shifted into high while the front is in low. I will have to look at it more today and see if I can figure it out. My brain was hurting last night after fooling with it.

 

[YJ-GENRAL]

just a thought, but could you cut and grind for front dig in high and low and have some sort of mechanical lock on the rear stick so it wouldnt shift?

as simple as a hook on a swivel labeled FD LOCK that you manually switch onto the rear stick to keep it from accidentally shifting into high? or keep you from accidentally shifting it into high... and when you do a front dig you make sure you wing/flip the switch to prevent that?

i know that sounds as good as "just remember not to put the rear in high" but atleast with this you have something to do every time you want front dig, so its more routine than just remembering...