Downsides of a budget boost?

[@dam]

Hi guys. Just wondering...who here has done a budget boost? I'm getting new tires soon, and wondering if I should do the 1 3/4" budget boost and get something a little bigger.

How big of tires can I fit with the boost?

My questions though are what problems have people had with the boost. I saw one site that said the shakles interfered with a trailer hitch, which I also plan on installing soon. Has anybody had reliability problems with the parts? After you raised the vehicle and put on bigger tires, what sort of mpg drop have you seen? Does it feel tippier on the street? Any handling problems? Any particular kit you would recommend or recommend avoiding? Anything else anybody can tell me?

TIA
@dam

 

[mgolden]

Nah, I have a budget boost on top of a 3" lift and there's no problem with the trailer hitch. The exhaust had to be moved slightly, but that's about it. A budget boost is a good starting point, in my opinion, since you can always add it onto another lift in the future. It's not parts down the drain when (not if ) you upgrade later.

As for tippiness (is that a word?), I doubt you'd feel the difference as long as you leave your sway bars on.

-Mike

 

[What Rd]

Clean slate, huh? That's refreshing.

You're smart to seek advice before spending lots of hard-earned. But you seem to be on a good track all by yourself. If you're just starting out and don't have a ton of money to do all the little things that go along with a taller lift, a budget boost can be a great stepping-off point. Like mgolden said, you can always use it on top of a new set of springs later.
You'll be able to run 30x9.50 BFGs with minor rubbing on the control arms at full steering lock (not a problem). I wheeled for years with that size BFGs at stock height (first the ATs and then two sets of MTs). You won't have any issues on the street, either.
You didn't say what year your rig is, or its mileage.
Enjoy!

 

[@dam]

If you ran that size at stock height, is the lift necessary? BFG T/A KO is probably the tire I'll get.

Oh yeah...1995 Sport, 145k miles. Good shape for the mileage though.

 

[Eagle]

According to Ed Stevens' web site, you can run 31x10.50s on stock rims with NO lift, if you extend the bump stops. I routinely run 30x9.50s on an '88 with stock suspension.

The budget boost is good for up to 31" tires, and I see no real "downside" to it other than the fact that if/when you want to go to larger tires you have to lift again. But that's part and parcel of the Jeepers' disease known as "inchitis," and it would be just as likely to stroke if you spent several hundred dollars on a complete 3" lift or 4-1/2" lift.

However, I notice you sneaked into your original question a comment regarding shackles, almost as though all budget boosts are shackle lifts. They aren't.

I'll discount blocks for the moment, because I hope anyone contemplating a lift has done enough research to show that blcoks are not an answer to anything. However, the add-a-leaf (AAL) is an answer. IMHO the AAL is a far superior BB to shackles. Shackles rely on the original spring (which some argue is prone to premature fatigue anyway), and extended shackles accelerate the fatiguing of the springs by allowing and encouraging the springs to work over a wider range of deflection.

A full-length AAL, on the other hand, reinforces the spring. It may not result in quite as much total articulation as a shackle lift (it can't -- but since compression is limited by the small lift you're only giving up a small increment of droop), but it WILL allow you to wheel a lot harder without breaking or destroying a spring.

On the Eagle rating scale for budget boosts (where 10 is best and 0 is worst, I rate the options as follows:

AAL (Full length) = 10
Shackle Lift = 5
AAL (Half-length) = 3
Blocks = -25

 

[What Rd]

@dam -

The lift isn't necessary. That said, and given the low cost of a BB, you'll appreciate getting your underside that much further away from harm. I used to drag my rockers over everything running at stock height.

While Ed really knows his stuff and I'm quite sure that if he says 31s will fit with only extended bumpstops then he's seen it or done it. But I wouldn't have gotten away with it on my particular XJ. The 30s were right at the limit on several limits - flares, spring tower, control arms, etc. YMMV depending on lots of factors.

I also don't think BBs using shackles are quite as undesireable as Eagle does. IMHO, by the time you've toasted your stock leaves you'll be ready for your RE 4.5 inch lift with new leaf packs anyway, at which point the shackle will come in very handy.
One more point - blocks are cheap and easy, but can lead to problems like spring wrap, fatigue, and even failure if you use cheap aluminum ones. However, on Eagle's scale I'd only give them a -6.


Get the BB of your choice, add a transfercase skid and tight-fitting rocker protection and wheel it like crazy until inchitis hits and you convince yourself you NEED that big lift!

 

[Kinch]

i have a 95 with a 2" BB with AAL in the back and i run 31's. It did affect the milege some on the road but didnt get great to start with but i was willing, as are most people with jeeps, to sacarfice a little milage for better offroad performace. With the 2" and 31's i get a little rub on the plastic of the flares when turning deep..and the rub alot when you start stuffing them in the fenders when off road. the back is actually worse than the front.

 

[@dam]

OK...thanks for the replies, but now I have even MORE questions.

First I'll explain my situation. My Jeep is more transportation than entertainment. I'm into camping, hiking, skiing, and REALLY into mountain biking (my mountain bike is probably worth more than the Jeep at the moment). I'm thinking of taking up paragliding soon too, which may have me driving up lots of steep, rough hills. I don't plan on doing too much driving around off-road just for the sake of offroading. On my maps, there are a few roads labeled "Jeep roads" that I'd like to explore, and the Oceano Dunes state vehicular recreation area is only about a half hour away, so that would be sort of fun to explore, but other than that my Jeep is just my transportation for my other hobbies. A means to and end rather than an end itself. It's my all-terrain wagon. I really don't want to get in the situation where I sacrifice much on-road performance, mileage, or handling. I don't want to get in situations that requires me to take a bunch of tools and spare parts with me, risking expensive damage (I have more than enough expensive hobbies already). This is especially true because I'm often off by myself, with no help around, so I take it easy. If the going gets that tough, I plan on parking the Jeep and taking the bike out. I plan on avoiding inchitis if at all possible. Of course, I never thought I'd even ever consider lifiting a vehicle at all, ever and here I am, so who knows.

That said, it is nice to have the capability to get to some of the places where I want to go, so a little extra off-road-ability would give me a nice safety cushion. I planned on getting the biggest tires that would fit stock and leave it at that, but from the sounds of it you can't get a whole lot bigger than the OEM tires without a lift.

OK...so here are my new questions...

-How can I tell if my springs are sagging? I have 145k miles.
-Does that AAL make for a stiffer ride?
-What is easier to install: AAL or Shakles. I'm a mechanically minded person, but not very experienced with a lot of car repair (just the basics...water pump, brakes, starter solenoid...little things like that)
-Will the Budget Boost make other parts, like U-joints, bearings, etc. wear out prematurely. All these parts are stock on my Jeep, so I'm a little worried about them breaking at an inopportune time.
-How much will my speedometer be off by running 30 or 31" BFG A/T tires? My stock tire is 225/75R15.
-Somebody said the shakles cause interference with his exhaust. Could you please be more specific?
-Will the boost in the front create any problems with sway bars, steering linkage, various rod-ends, or any other parts.
-Can anybody be more specific about the MPG loss from running a BB with 30" BFG All Terrains? I average about 18 or 19. I get about 21-24 on the highway. I used to get about 10% better mileage until I moved to CA this summer. I think it must be the gas here. Oxygenated maybe? (I noticed the same loss in my Honda at the same time)
-What sort of speedometer error can I expect? How hard is it to recalibrate?
-What shocks can I get. I think the shocks on my car are stock! They actually seem to work OK...the ride isn't bouncy. But still- that is a lot of miles, and it seems like there will be some sort of sacrifice having the shocks extended 2" beyond what they are used to. 2" less negative travel I'd guess.
-How is suspension geometry altered? It seems like the steering knukles would get pulled in a little, changing the toe angle.
-Oh yeah...unrelated, but what hitch do you guys recommend?

Thanks again for all the input guys.
-Adam

 

[Drewlee77]

I'll answer a few, perhaps not sufficiently but I'll give you want I got.

AAL does make for a stiffer ride. The full-length AAL, I *think*, is much better in that regard than a half-length.

How much your speedo is off will depend on how much it was off from the factory. Not sure why, but when I went to 30's over 225's it FIXED my speedo. I have checked my speedometer/odometer using every means I know how - radar, GPS, mile markers, timing - and I have not been able to find more than a .25% error in it! That's pretty amazing considering I should be reading 6% slow if it were right from the factory. All that to say, check your speedometer and find out how acurate it is first.

 

[Kinch]

As far as wear and tear on other parts....i have the 2"BB and 31' AND 400 mile commute between home and school...and have made that many times with the BB and 31's and no problems...just uses a little bit more gas but that may because of driving style...but i have been happy with the BB, even though im planning on the RE 4 1/2" soon, it gives you alot more ability off road than you would think. and on road manners are just a little stiffer with the AAL and new shocks

 

[Eagle]

Note that in referring to Ed's web site I mentioned that he calls for extending the bump stops. I believe this was particularly for the rear, to prevent the tire from rubbing the wheelwell liners under full compression. This is a function of tire size, not lift, BTW -- if you run 31s, you have to stop them from compressing up into the fender wells regardless of lift, unless you plan to cut out sheet metal.

IMHO, especially for an older XJ, an AAL is a lot easier to install than a shackle. The shackle bolts get rusty, and the bolt through the spring may have rusted enough to be siezed into the steel bushing in the spring eye. The AAL doesn't require undoing any of that -- you remove the u-bolts holding the axle to the springs, cut off the small center pin through the springs and the clips holding the springs together, insert the AAL with a new centering pin which SHOULD be included with the AAL kit, and reassemble.

The AAL wiff stiffen the ride, but I find it to be comfortably "firm," not "harsh."

To check your springs, measure from the center of your wheel caps straight up to the bottom edge of the flares. The "standard" dimensions are 17.5" front / 17.0" rear.

 

[HossHoffer]

31s

I run 31sx10.50 with a budget boost. They do rub in the front under compression so I did the hockey puck thing and put a stop to that. However they also rub the LCAs during turning. I'm using the stock aluminum 10 spoke rims. I believe that to truly clear 31x10.50 you will need a different back spacing on the rims. Don't get me wrong, Ed Stevens is the man and I use his site all the time. It could be the set-up I'm running and the backspacing on my rims. I've got a set of later model steel OEM rims that I'm going to try to see if it helps.

 

[Eagle]

http://members.aol.com/Stvns/XJhelp1.html

Ed discusses that. My 31s rub the LCAs, too, but that can be stopped by shimming the steering stops. Rims with less backspacing will also do it, but then the tires are farther outboard and will hit the flares when the suspension compresses.

 

[Ed A. Stevens]

OK...so here are my new questions...

-How can I tell if my springs are sagging? I have 145k miles.
-Does that AAL make for a stiffer ride?
-What is easier to install: AAL or Shakles. I'm a mechanically minded person, but not very experienced with a lot of car repair (just the basics...water pump, brakes, starter solenoid...little things like that)
-Will the Budget Boost make other parts, like U-joints, bearings, etc. wear out prematurely. All these parts are stock on my Jeep, so I'm a little worried about them breaking at an inopportune time.
-How much will my speedometer be off by running 30 or 31" BFG A/T tires? My stock tire is 225/75R15.
-Somebody said the shakles cause interference with his exhaust. Could you please be more specific?
-Will the boost in the front create any problems with sway bars, steering linkage, various rod-ends, or any other parts.
-Can anybody be more specific about the MPG loss from running a BB with 30" BFG All Terrains? I average about 18 or 19. I get about 21-24 on the highway. I used to get about 10% better mileage until I moved to CA this summer. I think it must be the gas here. Oxygenated maybe? (I noticed the same loss in my Honda at the same time)
-What sort of speedometer error can I expect? How hard is it to recalibrate?
-What shocks can I get. I think the shocks on my car are stock! They actually seem to work OK...the ride isn't bouncy. But still- that is a lot of miles, and it seems like there will be some sort of sacrifice having the shocks extended 2" beyond what they are used to. 2" less negative travel I'd guess.
-How is suspension geometry altered? It seems like the steering knukles would get pulled in a little, changing the toe angle.
-Oh yeah...unrelated, but what hitch do you guys recommend?

Thanks again for all the input guys.
-Adam

The fender flair edge to rim center measurement will help identify the condition of the current springs.

The AAL will add to the spring rate (make the rear suspension stiffer).

The long (full length) AAL adds minimal stiffness to the spring, although it adds the stiffer spring rate immediately in the compressed travel range compared to the static ride height (it will feel stiffer regardless of the load, compared to the stock suspension). Most people report that the feel is firm, but not rough, because the increase in spring rate as each leaf in the pack is loaded is the same as stock.

The short AAL adds spring stiffness as well, but it adds the extra rate after some initial compression travel. The step, from the stock spring rate to the increased short AAL rate, is more noticable by the driver. and the shock load of the increase in rate is also felt by the stock leafs (it can fatigue the stock leafs). The unloaded ride is the same, but it gets harsh as the short AAL is loaded.

The shackle & AAL lifts are about the same in difficulty, and seem to take about the same time for a first timer. The age and corrosion of the XJ will have more impact on the difficulty than the actual installation steps (as Eagle mentioned, the AAL install involves less corrosion prone bolts to slow a planned install). Preparation with anti-sieze and lubricant spray applied to the bolts and nuts in the weeks preceeding the install really does help.

The BB does not increase wear, but as with all lifts it changes the wear patterns on bearing surfaces. The driveline u-joints will be working at a slightly higher angle, possibly outside the normal wear range, and this may highlight an existing need for a replacement that was not as noticable before the lift.

Alignment is needed after any lift change, and after the springs settle. Alignment of the toe-in is good practice on a regular basis because the XJ's inverted-y steering changes the toe-in with lift height (with installed lift height increase or sag related loss of height). Adjusting toe-in is a good skill to learn, and the accuracy needed for the XJ straight axle is possible with a good tape measure and a long straight edge (a 2x2 wider than the XJ will work).

Most XJ speedometers report a speed faster than actual. Changing the speedometer gear to correct error is easier than changing spark plugs (although it can be dirtier).

Longer shackles sometimes extend down near the tailpipe support bracket near the rear bumper, and hit the tailpipe. Jeep changed the exhaust a few times so some hit, and some do not. Having a muffler shop bend the tailpipe is an inexpensive solution.

Anytime you increase the weight on the steering and suspension, install larger tires, you increase the potential for wear. If we didn't have power steering we would be feeling the extra stress in our arms, and the increased stress is still there with power assist (it's just not transferred back to the driver). If you have a part in need of replacement, it usually dies quickly after a suspension or tire change (not because of lift induced problems, but due to the change in wear pattern and increased weight). Most Death Wobble reports are immediately after a lift, because the mix of new and old parts is not as cooperative (for dampening) as a combination of well worn parts.

The oxygenated fuel delivered to urban areas in CA is reported to reduce fuel economy ~5% (you are not imagining the loss of economy).

Most 3" lift shocks are stock length. Keep the stock shocks, with 0-3" lift, until you revise the mounts. Lifts above 3" can really make good use of extra shock travel, and if you go higher it's the time to select something better suited for your driving style.

BTW, welcome to , and California. More than a few California people visit these boards (and are members) with similar transportation needs as you. Providing a balance between a rock/mud/sand/trail crawler and a daily toy hauler is an area where the XJ shines. For every 33 and 35-inch plus tired XJ owner posting on these boards there are probably ten more owners with 30's or 31's (and almost all built XJ owners started in the same situation). The mildly built XJ on 31's performs very well as an all around utility vehicle for 90% of the trails and conditions that can be legally driven. Add-in body protection, minimal fender trimming, and lockers, and the limitation on passible trails is more ground clearance (and budget risk) related than anything else.

 

[REDXJ4FUN]

Most every one is on the same wave lenght here so I'll just add a few things. I''d stay with 30s. you don't seem to knowtice as much drag on the motor as you do with 31s( i know its only an inch but I swapped between 30s and 31 for trail tires and stret tiresso i knowticed it) The most expencive part of the BB are the shocks. and a kit like REs comes with nice shocks that realy make a huge diffence in the way it rides and handles. And as a rule if you get new tires (due to wearing them out) you should get new shocks.

 

[Majo]

here's one downside....


your going to want to go higher and bigger !!!!!!!

:roflmao::roflmao:


Go AAL definately, great way to start getting into though if your into sure what you want your rig setup for yet and still wanna run a lil tougher trails

 

[@dam]

Thanks a lot for all of your advice, guys. Here is what I think I'll do.

I think I'll get a budget boost of about 1.75". I think I'm going to get a shakle for the back rather than the add a leaf, because I want to retain the stock ride quality. Also, I just went out and measured and I have 0 sag in my springs. 17" & 17.5", right on the money. Suprising given how many miles it has. Also, my tail pipe looks like it only needs to be heated and rebent just a little bit (probably wouldn't need bending at all if that MR2 hadn't rear ended me last year).

Can somebody recommend a particular kit to fit my needs?

I think I'll also go with the BFG All Terrain T/A KO tires in a 30"x9.5" size. That is big enough to give me a little more traction and clearance, but not so big as to alter gearing that much or require speedometer adjustment.

Now, Ed. Stevens says my stock shocks are OK. I'll probably keep them at least for the winter, however, with 145,000 miles on them they are probably due for replacement anyway. Any recommendations on type? Ed: should I stick with the stock size shocks? Also, do I need to do anything to my bump stops? I read your site, but I couldn't really follow. It sounded like in one part you said the factory stops are a little longer than they need to be anyway, right?

Also, what do you guys recommend for quick disconnects?

 

[@dam]

Oh yeah...here is the Jeep as it sits now...

On the other side my wife banged up the fender a little though. You can sort of see the damage on the passanger side of the bumper. I need to get it fixed before new tires fit, so I'm off to the body shop tomorrow.

 

[What Rd]

OOHHhhhhh
Hold on a second . . . I understand you're not thinking along the lines of hard-core wheeling, but before you go spending what they will charge you to replace that stock bumper (count on approximately one arm and part of a leg for a piece of formed sheetmetal) do a little searching around for an aftermarket bumper. You can get yourself a much more stout bumper with solid towhook attachment points for no more than what it'll cost you to stay stock. You won't need a heavy unit with a winch on it for your intended use, but I can envision any number of handy uses for a solid bumper for a guy such as yourself who's into so many different outdoor sports.
Just a thought - but hey, it doesn't cost you anything to search around the web a bit before you spend money on that practically worthless bumper.

 

[@dam]

Any Bumper reccomendations? I was sort of thinking of putting a front hitch on anyway, incase any of my friends or I get stuck in the snow going skiing or something.

It would have to be under $300 shipped and integrate a hitch, frame reinforcements, and/or tow brackets.

Well...second though, maybe protruding tow brackets aren't such a good idea. I couldn't push somebody without damaging their bumper.

Here is a better shot of the body damage on the other side...