Death Wobble + Knocking Noises... a Jeep nightmare.

[HeyAwesomePeople]

Hey jeepers. This is going to be a long one. I have two issues. My jeep tried to run into a pole today with it's DW so I need all the advice I can get.


First issue: Death Wobble!!!

I have replaced the track bar, drag link, and tie rod ends (1AAuto). I have gotten my car aligned (twice). My track bar is stock and I do have a 4 inch lift, so my axle isn't centered perfectly. I torqued the tie rod ends to 55 ft-lbs. Nothing feels loose that I can grab and shake.

The death wobble began several months ago after a trail ride but only at high speeds. I ignored it for a while. Just a week ago I used to get the death wobble above 65mph. I figured now it's time to replace some things. I did the track bar one week and it had no change, it still death wobbled at 65mph. The next week I replaced the drag link and tie rod ends. I immediately went and got an alignment - and what do you know??? Now I get death wobble at 45mph+.

Every bump I go over it feels like I'm going to go into death wobble when doing more than 30mph. Over 45 mph, and bumps/potholes/manholes send me into the death wobble. Did me installing tie rods and getting an alignment mess it up even more?? My alignment also isn't holding. They say they get it perfect and I see the numbers the computer says they did. But one day later I come back between I'm out of alignment again and they ask me if I changed anything!? (I didn't).

I'm at a loss. My daily driver is parked right now. If I can't find a solution soon I am going to have to take it to Adam's Driveline (a 4x4 repair shop in Vegas). I don't really want to have to do that since the tow will cost a chunk of money and the diagnoses/repair will cost money too. Budget is tight though, as I'm still in high school.

Any help in this area would be nice! Thank you!



Second issue: Knocking Noises, Banging noises from Drivers side

I also have a knock, it seems to be coming from the drivers side. When shifting from 1-2 (Manual) or going over bumps like driveways and speed bumps, I get banging I can feel under the floorboard and hear it audibly too. It's feels like something is about to break off. It doesn't seem to occur at higher speeds. I cannot for the life of me figure it out.

I did notice though that my drivers side coil was missing a coil retainer. I am ordering new coil retainers now as well as coil isolators (why not?). I noticed too that with my front end lifted up by the frame, I am able to punch my drivers side coils and get knocking/clanging noises. I can also shift it around. I cannot do this to my passenger side coil. Should I be getting new coils? Video of coils

The ball joints also don't have any play (tested by jacking up with tires and grabbing them 12 and 6 and shaking). I figured maybe the shocks could be causing it (shock bushings were all bad), but I still get noises with both shocks removed. Sway bar link bushings are also new and tight, as well as the sway bar bushings themselves.

I was driving at about 30 mph today (slowly because I almost crashed from the death wobble) and I hit a small bump. It literally sounded like something fell off of my jeep (nothing did that I can see).


so yeah. death wobble and terrible noises from my front end. Any advice on what to do here? I have ordered an adjustable track bar from rusty's as well as shock bushings (to install Bilstein 5100's) and a new steering dampener (mine was old and leaking fluid. I know it isn't a reliable fix for DW, but I figured they're cheap and I need a new one anyway).

Here are some pictures of under my jeep.

Thanks for any suggestions.

(I have cross-posted this with Reddit, Jeep Forums, Cherokee forums, and just to explain why you might be seeing this post a second time)

 

[HeyAwesomePeople]

Could figure out how to edit. Here is the video and here are the pictures.

 

[Anak]

If your alignment numbers are not holding firm from one day to the next I would be really suspicious of the tie rod ends.

One item which I don't see mentioned in your analysis of the problem is the mounting of the steering box. The factory aluminum spacer isn't much to get excited about and there can be sheet metal issues with its mounting. I would expect an alignment shop to notice if anything were wrong, but for the sake of this discussion you need to confirm things are good in that department.

Also, have the tires been checked for balance? Especially since that off road trip when this issue started?

For the banging/knocking noise, can we get details on the Jeep? Renix? HO? Late model? AX-15? Internal or external slave? Lifted? And if so, how much? How old are your motor mounts? And how old is your trans mount. If you don't know the ages of the mounts I would start there. Replace all three. Odds are they are due.

 

[HeyAwesomePeople]

If your alignment numbers are not holding firm from one day to the next I would be really suspicious of the tie rod ends.

One item which I don't see mentioned in your analysis of the problem is the mounting of the steering box. The factory aluminum spacer isn't much to get excited about and there can be sheet metal issues with its mounting. I would expect an alignment shop to notice if anything were wrong, but for the sake of this discussion you need to confirm things are good in that department.

Also, have the tires been checked for balance? Especially since that off road trip when this issue started?

For the banging/knocking noise, can we get details on the Jeep? Renix? HO? Late model? AX-15? Internal or external slave? Lifted? And if so, how much? How old are your motor mounts? And how old is your trans mount. If you don't know the ages of the mounts I would start there. Replace all three. Odds are they are due.

Thanks for the reply! Sorry I forgot to put my jeep specs in!!!

It's a 2001 Jeep XJ. It was originally an AW4 but I swapped in an AX-15. The rear trans mount is 3 months old, bought from Napa (Drivetech). It still is in great shape (checked it yesterday while trying to figure this out). The motor mounts were replaced about 3 months ago as well. I have Brown Dog's motor mounts and motor brackets (poly). That engine ain't going anywhere. I re-tightened all engine mounting bolts yesterday just in case, but it made no difference.

I got my Tie Rods from 1AAuto... maybe I need to get a higher quality brand.

I don't quite know how to check the steering box. The new guy at the shop was doing my alignment so I don't know how much he checked over. He said my jeep tracked in a straight line for 10 seconds, but the second I drove it I veered to the right. Took it back and they said it veered to the left and then asked if I had changed anything! I'm starting to not trust them, but then again the guy's new and this isn't a 4x4 shop and didn't know what "death wobble" was when I asked them about it.

I had someone turn my wheel left and right while I looked under. I saw a slight back and forth movement in the track bar at the axle mount (brand new track bar... so the hole must've rounded out!!), and I saw no movement from the steering box or pitman arm, they looked fine and stationary.

The tires have not been checked for balance. I actually popped a front tire on the trails (ripped the side of it open) and driving back is when we got the death wobble. We drove straight to a tire shop and got a new tire. All four tires had been put on just a few thousand miles ago, so having a new tire back on looked no different. The tires were all balanced about 10k miles ago, with the newest tire being balanced before they put it on. I am thinking of having the shop do this too, but I've heard that tires out of balance isn't the root cause of death wobble, it only makes it worse?

I have an adjustable track bar on the way, and I'll get a slightly bigger bolt for the track bar axle mount point as some users have pointed out elsewhere. Things are still super sketchy and that won't end up fixing my clunking noise.

 

[RCP Phx]

That's to much lift with stock arms and angles. Cheap parts don't help either and your trackbar has been relocated but the angles are pretty steep.

 

[HeyAwesomePeople]

That's to much lift with stock arms and angles. Cheap parts don't help either and your trackbar has been relocated but the angles are pretty steep.

Bought it like this. No DW when I bought it. Terrible lift kit was put on it. Rear leaf springs are ruined with a block lift...

I'm thinking of upgrading my lowers to adjustable ones in the future to get my axle angles more accurate.

Track bar has been relocated but the adjustable one I'm getting will let me use the stock hole again. I bought the 1AAuto kit hoping for a quick fix since others had had luck with it. Guess I should've got some higher quality parts!

 

[CastorTroy]

IMO you need to replace the lower control arms ASAP, not "in the future." With your caster as off as it surely is, it can definitely cause/contribute to death wobble.

Also, I'd check your steering box spacer. I'd be willing to bet it is cracked and your steering box is floating around.

 

[lazyxj]

I had someone turn my wheel left and right while I looked under. I saw a slight back and forth movement in the track bar at the axle mount (brand new track bar... so the hole must've rounded out!!).

A loose track bar is a very common source of death wobble and is probably what is causing your problem.
Once you have replaced the track bar with an aftermarket bar and done whatever is necessarily to bolt it tightly, I bet the death wobble disappears.

My 2001 had the same issue many years ago. The track bar was replaced with a bar from Kevin's, along with the extra stiff bushings. Never a wobble since.

 

[HeyAwesomePeople]

IMO you need to replace the lower control arms ASAP, not "in the future." With your caster as off as it surely is, it can definitely cause/contribute to death wobble.

Also, I'd check your steering box spacer. I'd be willing to bet it is cracked and your steering box is floating around.

I'm thinking of getting lower control arms from Core 4x4, Tier Two (one johnny joint). I don't have that big a budget so I'm just trying to keep it cheap.

How exactly do I check my steering box? I didn't notice any moving while having someone move the wheel back and forth, is there another way to check for cracks/play?

Thanks!

 

[smccollamjr]

Check control arm bushings too.

 

[CastorTroy]

I'm thinking of getting lower control arms from Core 4x4, Tier Two (one johnny joint). I don't have that big a budget so I'm just trying to keep it cheap.

How exactly do I check my steering box? I didn't notice any moving while having someone move the wheel back and forth, is there another way to check for cracks/play?

Thanks!

If you couldn't see any movement then it is probably ok. However, since you can get them on ebay for $25-30, I'd highly recommend you replace it anyway. With your 4.5" lift I assume you have bigger tires as well. The spacer is a pretty common failure point, and only takes a few minutes to swap out.

 

[HeyAwesomePeople]

If you couldn't see any movement then it is probably ok. However, since you can get them on ebay for $25-30, I'd highly recommend you replace it anyway. With your 4.5" lift I assume you have bigger tires as well. The spacer is a pretty common failure point, and only takes a few minutes to swap out.

I'll look into doing it soon. I have 29.6 inch tires on the lift, just Wrangler ST's. I do plan on upgrading to 32" KO2s in the far future though, so I'll definitely replace the gearbox or maybe do a Durango gear box upgrade when I do that.

 

[trippled]

Have you checked all the bolts on the track bar frame bracket? With lift and stock track bar it puts a lot of stress on that bracket particularly when the passenger side droops. It can work the bracket loose and crack it. I would also check the control arm bushings and bolts for causing your thump noise. I had stock uppers for a long time and actually stretched the upper arm out at the frame.

I run 4in lift with stock location arms. No dw.

 

[TrialLake]

Did you get your death wobble situation figured out? Curious...