College!

[.40CalPatriot]

Hey guys I know this is way off topic but it is a hard subject to talk to my family about, and I need to get this off my chest. None of my Aunts or Uncles graduated from College. Same with my father, and my mother only got an Associates Degree. As I grew up I was expected to be the first in my family (other than a few cousins) to graduate from College. And my family is large, my grandmother had 7 kids, which has turned into twenty some grandkids, and almost thirty some great grandkids by now. Now that I am about to enter my third year of college, everytime I think about school I am totally unexcited and have no motivation.

During high school I excelled in everything that I did, I was on the Honor Roll my Freshman, Sophomore, and Senior year. I also lettered in Academics twice and maintained a 3.5 or higher GPA all of high school. When I graduated I decided that I was going to attend CU for Engineering. I was accepted to the Mechanical Engineering Program at CU Denver, and I also received the first National Science Foundation REACH Scholarship. I thought that all was going well for me until I finished my first full semester there and barely had anything to show for it. I had withdrawn from my calculus class, barely passed my Psych Class with a C, passed my CAD class with a B and failed my English Class because I missed many classes because I ditched to stay caught up with other classes homework. First off I was pissed that I failed my English class because I had done all the work and got at least a B on every essay. So by the start of my second semester I was already on Academic probation due to the strict rules of the College of Engineering. Another reason that I had trouble keeping up with school was I was also working two jobs at the time. One job was Monday thru Friday between classes, as well as a job that I worked almost all day on Saturday and Sunday. I was raised with the values that you have to earn everything that you want and that no one will hand you anything without hard work. So once I moved out at the age of 18 I told myself I wasn’t go to rely on my parents money for school, food, housing etc etc like most college students do. But my parents were paying for tuition. I feel that once I hit college I thought I had already done a lot to prove myself by working hard in high school and once I hit college it was just thrown out the window for nothing. I sometimes wish that I would have just barely skated thru high school so I was not totally burnt out like I was once I hit college.

Long story short by the end of my first full year of college I lost my scholarship, and I was on academic suspension from CU. During that last semester there was a lot of communication between myself and the college that never amounted to nothing. I blame the school for most of it as they told me they were willing to help me with any problem I had once I was there student, but when it came down to it they basically shut the door on me and never really helped me solve anything. Because of that I told myself that I would not go back to CU Denver. (At least the Engineering College)

Now that I am entering my third semester at Front Range I feel that I have yet to gain anything from College at all. My mother has lost her job due to the bad economy and it is now up to me to pay for college. I have a job that depends on my going to school at least part time. Now that I have almost been in school for 3 years and am still probably 3 years from getting a Bachelors Degree at the rate that I am going. I feel like I am just spinning my wheels here. I have a great job that if I just keep up the good work I hopefully be hired on as a FTE, and if that were to happen I would have more than enough money to pay for living expenses etc and be able to work and go to school at nights.

So my question to you guys that graduated with a degree have you gained anything in life due to that little piece of paper that you think you have not gotten it without the degree?

Sorry for the long rant, I really needed to get this out and feel a lot better now that I have said it. And I hope that this makes sense, as I just started typing away.

 

[old_man]

You've probably heard all this before, but let me say, tough it out. Yes it is a pain. Yes the grind can make you think you hate the profession, but nobody can ever take that degree away from you. While the GPA helps open the first door for you, after that it rarely comes into play.

Without a degree you will always be on the bottom trying to climb the ladder. The degree opens the doors. Heck, to a great extent, it doesn't even matter what field it is in.

Start looking for an intern type position in your field. You will get to see what you are shooting for. Then when you graduate, you will have some experience. That is far more important than the GPA. You can show employers you have a work ethic. That intern job may turn into a full time position.

With the way the economy is going, you better have a degree if you want a shot at a living wage.

 

[xj-grin]

Justin, sorry to be an old fogey like Tom, but yeah, grind it out. It isn't necessarily that you really learn anything in getting that BS degree (it may be called that for a reason), but it can open doors. Personally, mine didn't, but its probably because I didn't knock on the right doors. What it did do, is allow me to go back to school when I decided what I wanted to do, and get an advanced degree in something I enjoy, that really does pay off. I was repairing sprinklers (with my BS) when I had the crazy idea to go back to school, but if I hadn't toughed it out in undergrad, I wouldn't have had the options.

Tough it out and get the paper. If you decide you want to pursue a trade or something afterwords, go for it, the paper will help you with small business loans and the like.:read:

 

[.40CalPatriot]

You've probably heard all this before, but let me say, tough it out. Yes it is a pain. Yes the grind can make you think you hate the profession, but nobody can ever take that degree away from you. While the GPA helps open the first door for you, after that it rarely comes into play.

Without a degree you will always be on the bottom trying to climb the ladder. The degree opens the doors. Heck, to a great extent, it doesn't even matter what field it is in.

Start looking for an intern type position in your field. You will get to see what you are shooting for. Then when you graduate, you will have some experience. That is far more important than the GPA. You can show employers you have a work ethic. That intern job may turn into a full time position.

With the way the economy is going, you better have a degree if you want a shot at a living wage.

I have an intern job, and have been here for over two years. And there has been no talk or even hint of me ever getting a job offer or a date that it will end. Its like I am stuck in limbo going nowhere and not gaining a drip of knowledge, almost everything I have learned in school I could have taught myself or I have already learned it.:lecture:

 

[WB9YZU]

There was a time when it was unusual to go to college or even finish high school; and to make a very decent living, you didn't need either. You didn't need a degree to assemble cars, or work in a fertalizer plant, be an assembler, or even be a machinist.

But those days are gone. A HS degree is just a start and allows you to put up drywall for a living, or maybe drive Taxi in Chicago

Tom has some good insight here. Post secondary education is pretty much a "must have". Whether you go into an Associates Degree program, or go for your Masters. The subject doesn't seem to be as important as the effort and good grades.

Ron

 

[welldone]

you don't need no stupid degree just get blown up and your set for life. :wantyou:

 

[Led]

I don't think its too late to get yer GED

 

[Jawa]

Throw in another "tough it out" from me. I can vouch for the fact that simply having that piece of paper will afford you opprotunities you might not otherwise have. I currently have an Associate's Degree and I've run into some walls because it's not a "real" degree. I'm starting college again in January to finish up my bachelor's. I'm changing majors and can only go part time with a family and M-F 9-5 type job. It's going to take me 3 or more years to get it done, so I can appreciate how you feel. I too have to pay my own way without any scholarships or grants. It sucks signing paperwork for all those student loans.

Think of it as a personal challenge. Do you have what it takes to get this done or do you not? Who cares what friends or family think or expect of you? Do it for you - prove to yourself that you can do it. Prove that you can rise above the obstacles and accomplish your goal. I know, I know, real cheesey, but that's how I look at it. I know I'm smart enough and dedicated enough to finish out my degree, so gawdangit I'm going to do it.

EDIT: That last part really sounds like Stuart Smalley now that I'm reading it again... for those who remember who that is. :roflmao:

 

[.40CalPatriot]

Jawas post brings up another challenge for me. I am not eligible for any student loans because somehow my parents make too much money.

 

[Jawa]

Oooh yeah, you're under 24 huh? I didn't think of that. Under 24 and you HAVE to go through your parents. Way, way lame! Anyway, in my experience you should still be able to get student loans, you just won't qualify for the interest free (unsubsidized) Stafford loans. I'm in that boat - the government says I make too much to qualify for the Staffords so I have to get regular ol' interest bearing loans.

 

[5-90]

While I think that college is becoming a good idea (primarily because primary education sucks these days...) I also think that jumping straight in from high school to college isn't the smartest thing in the world.

My advice is usually to take a year or two off between high school and college - and go out and work instead. It won't necessarily be a good job, mind, but you'll learn more about motivation and such that way than you ever could in school - and you'll get more out of school that way as well. Most kids right out of HS would end up with menial jobs anyhow - which is good, since that will teach them personal discipline, and show them what life can be like unless they work to better themselves.

Parents - charge them a reasonable rent once they've graduated as well. Maybe even a fraction of the utility bills when they come in - feel free to generate "official" bills for them as well, compleat with due dates, late fees, &c &c. We did this with both of ours.

Whether you go to school to learn a skill or a trade - make sure you learn something. Knowing something of what life will be about is a good way to make sure that you learn something to better yourself.

However, I'd like to offer up the following points:

1) Don't bother with a degree in Liberal Arts or General Education - they barely bring you up to what you should have properly learned by the time you graduated high school (and didn't, because HS was too busy with ESL and PC...) but you won't learn anything actually useful in the job market. Pick a subject and learn that instead - something else you can figure out on your "sabbatical from school" once you've graduated high school.

2) Learn a good deal in at least one trade - whatever else you learn. Why? Because there's only so much that can be offshored in this economy - we've sent all of our manufacturing offshore, we've sent most of our technical slots offshore, but we can't send construction, maintenance, and repair offshore. A man who knows a trade need never go hungry (I haven't really mastered any, but I'm skilled in several, and can usually find some work when I need to. I just have a hard time actually putting in eight hours' hard graft a day anymore, and can't keep regular hours. So, I write about it instead.)

One of my boys wants to be a GC - he's working on his degrees in construction engineering and construction management. But, he's a carpenter. The other wants to be on CHP (or at least a cop,) but he's a plumber in the meantime. I honestly don't think I knew a cop personally who wasn't skilled in at least one trade - if not more!

Oh - and I didn't push them into college. I let them get menial jobs, and they're paying for their own school (not only can we not afford it, I wouldn't pay for it for them anyhow. You'll get more out of it if you pay for it yourself. I know this - both times I've been to college I paid for it, or arranged financial aid, or ...)

 

[xj-grin]

Be glad you don't qualify for student loans -- I'll be paying mine off for the next 20 years, and its like a second (third if you count my late father's place I'm paying on) mortgage -- take your time, pay your way, it'll all be good....




or you could get yourself blown up like welldone -- you crack me up Joe!:laugh::explosion

 

[cammer34]

I feel the same way man. I am in aero at Boulder and it consumes every waking (and sleeping for that matter) moment of my life. I have a descent GPA and cant get an internship because the field is so competitive. You are ahead of the game with your internship position. I have had a lot of engineers from Ball, Lockeed and Boeing tell me that the only to make it through is to put you head down, sleep when you can, dont forget to try and be a normal human being, and be sure to focus on what is best for you. I am not sure what that is..but they said that I would know when it came.
I hear ya about the scholarship...both my parents are teachers, and my dad is retired AF. I got the same letter...

 

[thechief86]

you can get student loans, just get married! it worked for me! i got such a great interest rate that i have bought a few things for my jeep with the money, because it's waaaayyyyy better than credit card rates!
try salliemae.com i don't think they care what your parents make, as long as you sign up for the loans independantly, and claim that you have no income. you can even deferr payments till after you graduate! it sounds like a terrible idea, but you do this on faith that the job you get once you graduate will pay these loans off. also, as long as you keep in touch, they are pretty reasonable about repayment.
i know some people that stay in school their whole life, just to get student loans, and deferr payments till the graduate(which they never do, to avoid paying back the loans) i wouldn't do this, but it works for a lot of people
good luck man! if you ever get out, you'll be glad you stuck it out! i've done a ton of the jobs you can get without a degree, and i don't reccommend ANY of them!
i went back to school, and this time, i know what happens if i don't make it to the end! take a semester of if you need to, and it might change you perspective, and help motivate you! it worked for me! you can survive either way, but it's a lot easier with a college degree!(unless you can't get a job, in which case it's twice as hard, and i'd just get back in school until a job comes along

 

[freerider15]

I'm sure Rock Rash can chime in on this as well, hell about to graduate next semester in ME from CSU, I've got another year (due to transfering schools).

In reality in comes to what others have said, keep going and tought it out. When other freinds of mine were out on Thursday or Friday night...there have been many times im on campus or in the lab cranking out hw, a project, etc.

A lot of what an engineering degree gets ya is a piece of paper that says you have the fortitude to stick it through and get it done when it comes to it. I don't have as much financial stress as you, though I do work 15-20 hours a week so I can't help ya much there.

But I look at it this way in the end...I'll have spent 6 years of my life making the rest of my life and the quality of my life better, and learning some cool shit along the way

 

[4wheelinbum]

Tough it out... BUT do not waste your money! If you go... go all out 110% If not enjoy you life, and forget about school until you're ready give it a go again. I was in and out of college for way to long, and now I owe this money that I have to pay back, but don't have a degree because my heart was not in it!!!

Good luck

 

[rockhounds4x4]

There are two types of people in the world. Those who need a college degree and those who don't.

If you are an entrepreneur and are willing to work hard at starting your own business and have the head for it you don't need a college degree.

If you are the kind of person that always expects to have someone provide them a job and want to work for someone else you whole life then you need a degree.

I was just like you. I skated through high school with great grades and awesome SAT scores. I went to college and hated it. This was mostly due to the fact I couldn't get the classes I wanted to study and wound up taking all the classes I already had in high school. Calculus round two, oh boy! There were many factors that contributed to this, too many students, 36000 on campus my freshman year, freshman given last choice of class schedules etc. Three years into it I dropped out.

But I am one of those that has never wanted to rely on others to supply me with a job. I have started several relatively successful businesses and had never had trouble making a good living. I am my own boss and have been for nearly 20 years. I have always made more money than the average college graduate.

Think about what you want to do and where you expect to be in 20 years. Will you be happier being your own boss and forging your own way? Will you be happier collecting a salary and working to keep a job?

One thing that all my friends who work for someone else have in common is they have all been laid off at some point. With or without a college degree most people change careers 4 times in their lifetime. Your degree may or may not determine your unltimate career choice.

It all boils down to what kind of person you are, college degree or not not. A college degree does not guarantee you will be employed or make a decent living. Whether or not you have a degree you have to be a self starting motivated and ambitious.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

There's no question in my mind that having a degree truely depends on the job field you're looking to get into and what your aspirations for promotion would be.

Me? I did very well in high school, but I lost steam my Junior year. To be honest, I felt I was already too smart for what they were teaching and it all seemed to be a huge waste of time. So, after long discussions with my parents, I did the basic required courses at H.S. and enrolled in a tech school to get into Auto Mechanics for my Junior and Senior years. The idea being that I could get the work/job related education early and get to work, then return to college.

I'm really glad I went that route because I truely had no idea what I really wanted to do with my life/career. I've got a lineage of Auto Mechanics in my family and they've all done well for themselves working for Dealerships, and that's where I thought I wanted to go as well. I obtained 7 ASE certifications while at the tech school and competed in a few trouble shooting competitions which my teacher/counselor felt would help pad my resume and make me more desireable to good paying dealerships.

I worked as an auto mechanic for 4 years, but couldn't land a dadgum Dealership gig - I carpeted the industry with my applications...... got a few interviews but was turned down mostly for lack of real dealership experience. During the last 2 years of my auto mechanic employment, I enrolled in college at A.C.C. My folks could only help with the book expenses here and there, but I had to work to pay for my classes. I did the general education courses and then started taking the Law Enforcement classes because that was the only subject that held my interest.

I gave up on being a 'wrench - found I enjoyed it as a hobby, but not an everyday job. No one, including myself, saw me REALLY getting into an LEO job..... shocked everyone I knew.

After 5 years, I got my A.A.S. degree in Law Enforcement. I figured that if I needed to, I could expand that into a B.S. degree later in life.

Now, I've promoted as high as I'd like to (I'd need to get my B.S. degree if I wanted to promote higher anyway). I am SO GLAD I didn't force myself to go get student loans for a degree I'd never use. I have no desire or intention to get any further formal education - especially if I gotta go in debt for it. No thanks.

So, in short: I can't justify going into debt for the education you need to get that better paying job...... To me, it's just the viscious cycle of paying your way out of debt. The money you earned having the degree, just seems to go toward paying for the degree......... with interest.


I'd love to go the route that rockhounds4x4 chose. Hell, I'd love to get out of L.E. to pursue other ventures/interests, but I could never earn the money I'm making now with the benefits I have. My Dad's been an entrepreneur for the majority of my existence and I can definitely appreciate the feeling of pride that provides......... but after nearly 40 years of hard work, physical work, he's one very worn-out dude. And this economy (since 9/11) has cost him his retirement - from 4 furniture stores earning multiple millions of dollars prior to that, to one store struggling to stay in business.




Now, I'm on the eternal quest to find my "get rich quick" endeavor........ I think Joe (welldone) may be on to something......... It only hurts for a minute right?

 

[old_man]

Yella, I thought that running a chop shop was your get rich quick scheme?:shhh:

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Yella, I thought that running a chop shop was your get rich quick scheme?:shhh:

LOL! Nope. All I'd hoped is that it'd pay for my 'wheeling/parts........ it was doing that for a while, but now it's helping make up for the pay cut my wife took a year ago......Its keeping the bills paid, but ain't doing much for the hobby....... :thumbup: