Can warped rotors cause slight vib in steering?

[themangeraaad]

This is a non-Jeep vehicle so I figured I would post here

Can a warped brake rotor cause a slight vib in the steering wheel (and maybe in the seat a bit as well)?

Bit of background: My '08 altima (currently at 42k miles) had warped rotor(s) earlier this year; I brought it in under warranty and the dealership turned them. Problem fixed... for a while. The rotors warped again maybe a month later (and no, I wasn't driving/braking aggressively).. I have been dealing with a slight rotor warp for a few months now. I just never have the time to get into the dealership and bitch at them for s****y rotors and tell them I do not want them turned again, and that I want replacements since turning didn't do anything the first time around.

I just got the tires replaced maybe a month ago and ever since they were replaced is when I have felt like the tires were out of balance, I have a bit of a vib in the steering that is speed dependent. There may have been a very slight bit of a vib before tires were replaced, though not as much as now.

I had the tires replaced at a local NTB, and 2 weeks later brought it into a different NTB location to get them re-balanced (incase the first shop f***ed up). Even after a 2nd balance there is still a bit of a vib.

The mech at the 2nd shop said that he found one [rear] tire slightly out of balance, but nothing that should be causing vibrations. He re-balanced it and the vibs were lessened... just not gone. He also mentioned that if the problems continued it may be a bad tire that needs replacement (wouldn't the balance tell him if the tire was bad?). In addition he said it may take a bit of driving for new tires to break in, I now have approx 3k miles on the tires and no improvement.

I am going to go back to NTB and seeing what they can do for me, but before I keep chasing them I figured it was worth asking if a warped rotor could be part or all of my issue. I originally figured that the rotational mass of the rotor compared to the tire was minimal so it isn't likely a small warping will cause much of an issue.. but I want to be sure my thought process isn't incorrect.

Thanks,
-Scott

 

[redneckboarder]

stupid tech might be putting the lugs on with an impact gun, one lug is much tighter than others and pulls the rotor out of round, its mostly noticeable when the brakes are applied though

this has happened on our van a few times after service so i back off all the lugs and retorque to the proper specs and its fine after that

 

[Matthew Currie]

A defective tire might be out of round or have a belt defect and roll badly even when balanced. First thing I'd try is to move the tires around, or if possible borrow another set of wheels, and see what happens.

I don't think I've ever had a warped rotor cause a tangible imbalance. The amount of warp that can cause braking problems is very small. On the other hand, I don't see any theoretical reason why a warped rotor wouldn't influence overall balance, even if only slightly, and it might be worse these days with big rotors and light wheels, so I'd get onto the dealer too, and insist they make it right, since they ought to anyway.

 

[themangeraaad]

stupid tech might be putting the lugs on with an impact gun, one lug is much tighter than others and pulls the rotor out of round, its mostly noticeable when the brakes are applied though

this has happened on our van a few times after service so i back off all the lugs and retorque to the proper specs and its fine after that

I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case at all, it was a dealership and NTB... doubt they do much the 'right way' when it can be done quickly instead. And there is a definite vib while braking, I can feel it in the pedal... so I know that there is a brake issue. Just trying to decide if the two issues could be the same thing or if I have to chase two different problems.

A defective tire might be out of round or have a belt defect and roll badly even when balanced. First thing I'd try is to move the tires around, or if possible borrow another set of wheels, and see what happens.

I don't think I've ever had a warped rotor cause a tangible imbalance. The amount of warp that can cause braking problems is very small. On the other hand, I don't see any theoretical reason why a warped rotor wouldn't influence overall balance, even if only slightly, and it might be worse these days with big rotors and light wheels, so I'd get onto the dealer too, and insist they make it right, since they ought to anyway.

The mech mentioned the defective tire possibility. Would be hard to borrow a different set of wheels, though my friends mother did just get an altima... I just doubt she would want me spending the time to get hers off, etc.

I didn't think a warped rotor would cause an imbalance but I was just throwing it out there, but like you said, I just don't know for sure. i hate relying on the dealership (would rather do it right myself) but I won't pay for something if I can get it done for free.


Thanks for the input. Guess I gotta make some phone calls in the next week. I just don't want to deal with my car being in the shop (and me waiting for it) until after my Jeep is done.. I can afford to lose any garage time which is running short. :banghead:

 

[RichP]

X2 on the torque gun. I noticed that when I have any of my jeeps tires rotated they put the lugs on with a gun but then use a big assed MANUAL 3ft long torque wrench for the final torque. That's at both the Sams clubs I use locally.
That was a pleasant surprise.

 

[themangeraaad]

I think Nissan MIGHT have done it OK. IIRC when I got the flat (which is what prompted me to buy 4 new tires) the lugs came off fairly easily compared to when I had to break the lugs off the Jeep when I bought it. I think Nissan may have actually torqued them OK, but I saw NTB using a gun. Will try that this weekend or maybe tonight. Again, I just don't want to sacrifice any Jeep time to work on the DD. :laugh:

 

[jdougn]

X3 on the torque gun. That happened to my mom's car.
Also, on my '99 Chevy work van warped rotors cause vibration in the steering wheel and slight vibration in the seat of the pants. My local brake guy says that turning a warped rotor will only temporaily remove the warpage/vibration. He says the only way to really fix it is to replace the rotor.
BTW, my warped rotors were caused by a full on panic stop.

hth, DougN

 

[heyhar]

x3 on the lug nuts. With the Jeeps, and all the others now, I tighten the nuts in sequence, 30, 45, 60, 75 lbs/ft., to seat the wheel as evenly as possible. Also, in the past few years, I've had two sets of tires get out of round, neither set noticeable on balancing machines. Modern balancing machines rotate much too slowly to see the problem. This last set, on my '96, were a set of perfect looking Dayton Timberlines. I was told by at least five different shops, as I was having them spin balanced, that they NEVER have seen these tires go bad. 30k miles, brand new looking tread, so it wasn't the car killing them. So, I had them off the car, put them one at a time on the left rear, started the engine, put it in drive (open rear!), and let it idle. The wheel spins faster than a machine does, and it becomes obvious what the problem is. And, since they were nicely 'balanced', there were no vibes. Three out of four were just a little out. Think of it this way- you can balance an egg, but it's still not round.
I agonized over replacing them, as I'm not working. So, I went and got Firestone Indy tires, 237-70-15, and the Jeep rides better than it ever has. Nice and round. Good price, 55k mile warranty. It never goes offroad, so why suffer with stiff-wall truck tires.
I torque the wheels max 75 lbs., and check them a few times over the next few weeks.

 

[heyhar]

We had a Taurus and a Sable, both were murder on front rotors. Now, my wife's Outback, and daughter's Legacy, again tough on fronts. I keep an extra set for each in the garage. About every 12-18 mos., they'll start shaking. Just swap them out, and the local NAPA store will just 'knock the high spots off', and with just a shallow cut they last as long as we keep the car. Front-drive cars are hard on rotors, and there's nothing short of expensive competition brakes that's gonna fix it.

 

[joe_peters]

If you are feeling a pulse in the pedals while braking then you have a warped rotor.

Fix the brake problem and then see if there is still a "balance" issue.

 

[RichP]

X3 on the torque gun. That happened to my mom's car.
Also, on my '99 Chevy work van warped rotors cause vibration in the steering wheel and slight vibration in the seat of the pants. My local brake guy says that turning a warped rotor will only temporaily remove the warpage/vibration. He says the only way to really fix it is to replace the rotor.
BTW, my warped rotors were caused by a full on panic stop.

hth, DougN

Sometimes you can get it to unwarp, back the lugs off and retorque them, you need to find a long straight road or parking lot, start accelerating and apply the brakes gently, you want to heat up those rotors then after you get them good and hot take it out of gear and let it roll to a stop without touching the brakes and let it sit for a few minutes to cool off. They may through memory return to their original shape. For some reason women are really hard on brakes and I have done this a couple of times on my wifes previous cars, I used a big long hill on the PA turnpike, did not get them totally back but did vastly improve them.

 

[heyhar]

For some reason women are really hard on brakes

This is the Eleventh Commandment. Every warped rotor I've had to deal with over the last thirty years had a female foot on the pedal. God forbid you grab the shifter and drop it a gear while driving down a long hill. That's what kills em at our house.

Whenever the wheels are off, usually for rotation, have a Faithful Assistant gently climb into the well suspended car and gently cycle the pedal. Concentrate on the pads, and you'll see if the pad(s) move in and out while still on the rotor. It may help you see if it moves smoothly, or doesn't want to retract, causing heat from dragging. Typically you can hear parts moving in the rear, but also see if the drum grabs, then turns when the pedal is released.

 

[tommyr]

I've had a lot of problems with the front rotors on my Intrepid. Would get grooved like records after only 6-7000 miles. Went to ceramic pads & haven't had that problem.
It seems that all of the cheapo semi-met pads are harder than the rotors and just chew them up. I havn't had that problem on the Jeep though....There's an article somewhere in cyberspace that says the rotors really aren't warped, but rather the heat generated during braking transfers pad material to the rotor which then gets burned in and gives you that 'warped' feeling; which why it is important as RichP says, to coast to a stop and let them sit without the pads touching the rotor.

 

[heyhar]

Front drive cars are much harder on rotors than any other. Plus, they always seem smaller and lighter than the ones on the Jeeps. Less mass to soak up the heat=funky shape. It's a conspiracy to sell more parts!

 

[D.I.T.A]

A even slightly warped rotor can cause a vibe in the wheel as the warped section passes through the caliper it moves it side to side and at speed it and cause slight vibes, x2 on lug torque if improperly torqued wheels can pull a rotor of of round and the big reason you see shops and dealerships torquing wheels is because of insurance reasons. If a customer came back and said there wheel fell off they can turn around and say it was torqued to spec and them you can't do anything to them.

--Nick

 

[kastein]

A even slightly warped rotor can cause a vibe in the wheel as the warped section passes through the caliper it moves it side to side and at speed it and cause slight vibes, x2 on lug torque if improperly torqued wheels can pull a rotor of of round and the big reason you see shops and dealerships torquing wheels is because of insurance reasons. If a customer came back and said there wheel fell off they can turn around and say it was torqued to spec and them you can't do anything to them.

--Nick

Yeah, it'd help if they didn't torque them down one at a time in the wrong pattern though. I've never seen them follow the normal procedure of incrementally increasing the torque in a star pattern, they always screw it up one way or the other, or even get both wrong.

 

[heyhar]

I love when you get into an argument with the guys in a tire place about torque. 'It's a hundred pounds'. No it's not, I want them at 75. 'Well, you're going to have to sign this waiver'. No, why don't you look up the specs. Then they grab the TorkStix!!!

Around the end of the summer, I took my '96 to a shop that everyone I work with recommended as The Best. He balanced all four- they were off the car, had my spare set on- and he said to take them home, put them on, and if I was happy, then I could pay him. More than fair, I thought. Well, they still weren't good. I went back, said they were not much better, and he wasn't happy. He puts the car on the lift, removes the rears- where I felt the most hopping- and re-balanced them. He put them back on with the biggest gun I've ever seen- a two-hander. What a great ride home- I think the drums were twisted. It took a three foot piece of conduit on my two foot breaker bar, and me with both feet off the ground, to get every nut loose. This is when I started spinning the tires on the car, with the left wheel off the ground. One of the two rears was way out of round. I want those two days of my life back.

The moral of the story is, Never piss off a guy with a big gun, air or otherwise!

Sorry about the hijack. Just another idea to muddy the water.

 

[themangeraaad]

yeah, I am going to re-set the torque specs. If that does OK then I will let it slide, if not, I will raise hell.

and regarding any local shops: I only trust 1... my neighbors shop. My neighbor knows that I know my s**t so he wont f**k me over .

its great, i can get anything done (and done right) for dirt cheap, mind you I only brought my rig there 2 times. Once was when I had one lug nut that was stripped out, he did the job for free since I did most of the work already, which involved cutting the lug... then he just had to hit it with the air impact gun on the cuts that I had already made.. so apparently it took no time at all other than lifting the rig... so he did it for free). The 2nd time was for a full alignment.

The great thing is that when I brought it to him for an alignment (this was after he had JUST moved into his house next door to me and didn't know me) One of his new guys f****d up the alignment and left a bolt loose so that the steering wheel slowly went off center the more I drove it... I knew what the issue was but figured I would bring it back to him in order to have it fixed. Mind you this is 2-3 months after the original alignment (at least). His method of fixing it was something I never would have expected... he hopped in himself and re-did the alignment himself based on road feel and my feedback on steering alone.. it was the best alignment I ever had.. The best part is he I have NEVER had a shop do that, where the owner sits down in the passenger seat and says to take him for a ride. Then tells me to explain what I think was off and he hopped out and adjusted it on the side of the road. He knew that I knew my s*** and treated me as such.

Maybe it was because I was his neighbor, but the service was epic. Any car issue that I cannot fix myself will go to him. Not because he is my neighbor.. but because I honestly trust him to do the right thing.

If anyone in the SE of MA needs work I def recommend R&G automotive in Halifax MA.. let me know if you are planning to have work done at a shop. I will talk to the owner of R&G regarding prices.

I know that there is a very slight chance of this, but I will talk to Rich (owner) about discounts for local members... see if he is willing to do a deal. I will update for y'all accordingly once I get in touch with him

Long story short: I don't want to call in to his office since he is my neighbor and does good for me; I would prefer to have it be one of those afternoons where his daughters are playing with my kid sisters and he (or his wife) walks over to get them... then I will mention something Either that or maybe we can arrange some sponsorship deal. I will talk to him if I can

Oh and: his wife even started talking to me about driving and started bitching about how she had to special order her YJ to get a 5-speed.. I was pleasantly surprised that she was a hardcore 5-speed fan with her Jeeps. Never got more out of her (if she was a Jeep specific owner or if she just required a manual). Their DD's include a YJ and a WJ. I wonder if he can get a deal on WJ steering components... will be asking him asap.. maybe group buy if I can get a good price on new parts?

 

[badron]

I was pleasantly surprised that she was a hardcore 5-speed fan with her Jeeps.
=======================================
I LOVE HER

 

[stephenspann27]

I've had a lot of problems with the front rotors on my Intrepid. Would get grooved like records after only 6-7000 miles. Went to ceramic pads & haven't had that problem.
It seems that all of the cheapo semi-met pads are harder than the rotors and just chew them up. I havn't had that problem on the Jeep though....There's an article somewhere in cyberspace that says the rotors really aren't warped, but rather the heat generated during braking transfers pad material to the rotor which then gets burned in and gives you that 'warped' feeling; which why it is important as RichP says, to coast to a stop and let them sit without the pads touching the rotor.

That makes perfect sense. I took some rotors off my parts jeep, when had been sitting for man years, and the rotors felt badly "warped." I bet what happend is that while the jeep was sitting in one place for a long time, the metallic material in the pad rusted to the rotor, then when the jeep was moved the the pads came unstuck from the rotor, part of the pad material was left behind.

Here is my thread about the steering wheel vibes, and warped feel:
http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1017190