Camp Jeep needs help!

[bd18packer]

Dear Friends,

I have just read and signed the online petition:

"Continuation of Camp Jeep"

hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition service, at:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/CampJeep/

The future of Camp Jeep is in jeopardy. Jeep's Marketing department, which funds Camp Jeep, is considering pulling the plug on future Camp Jeep events.
I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think you might agree, too. If you can spare a moment, please take a look, and consider signing yourself. Camp Jeep is an Jeep Owner only event.

If you haven't been to a Camp Jeep, hopefully you will still have a chance to do so in future years. Camp Jeep caters to anyone and everyone that loves to experience life behind the wheel of a Jeep. Camp Jeep is a great time for one and all, and has been for twelve years. In fact, Camp Jeep was named the best customer owner appreciation event in the world in 2004. There isn't a better JEEP experience anywhere.

It's time to make your voice heard. Hearing directly from Jeep owners about the importance of Camp Jeep may be the only thing that saves it. With your help and the help of Jeep owners everywhere, you can help tip the scales in favor of keeping Camp Jeep alive. If you, or anyone you know, supports Camp Jeep, please refer them to the story on JeepNewsNow and ask them to support the grassroots campaign to save Camp Jeep.


Best wishes,

BD
Somewhere in the Rocky Mountains

 

[flexjay87]

well iv'e never attended a camp jeep, just seen pics and video of the events of those who have attended. but i think that since it does not seem to be an "enthusiasts" event, then i believe it will die because of it's own lack of appeal, to "real" off-roading. everyone has their own version of that, but i think there really is a jumping off point between people who really like to wheel and those who just want an suv and think that "off-roading" is a novel idea, but don't want any scratches on the rig. i have been in a retail business for 26 years and can say for sure that "marketing" personel care about the bottom line (sales) not what a small group of enthusiasts want. especially in an age of, tree hugging, political correctness, and now gas prices that are killing suv sales. look what happened to the Cherokee, GONE, probably never to return, especially under a solid axle form. when push comes to shove, marketers will water down or flat out discontinue anything not making money. most of the time any "enthusiast" in a company scenario, is usully not in a position to spend money at will for very long, unless the accoutants say so. (unless your an heir to Henry Ford). besides, unless you have plenty of extra money, many people who spend big bucks to go off-road, don't care about driving up a hill piled up by a back-hoe, and the play follow the leader somewhere on fairly flat ground. i'm sure jeep uses these events as a "hook" to get you into a vehicle, but do they really care what you do as far as driving preference after the sale, i say not. now the aftermarket is licking their chops, but jeep just wants sell next years model, that's what they do, and that's fine. i know they are other factors affecting situations like this, i'm just trying to make a point in general terms. numbers drive the market on anything, if 80% of jeeps were off-road on the weekends instead of runnin down the hi-way, then we would have a loud, powerfull voice, in terms of design, and what the customer wants. wow, it's early and i need more coffee, tell me where i'm wrong.....

 

[RichP]

Just to put it in perspective I've worked at various ones here in the poconos. The attendence is huge, our club, Blue Mountain Jeep Alliance, spends alot of days cutting and marking trails then guiding during the meet. It supported alot of the local shops and repair places when stuff broke. It also gave the owners and others the chance to actually drive a jeep off road, granted in somewhat groomed trails so as to minimize damage to the 200 or so jeeps they supply but every event has been well attended.
This years was cancelled due to the property owners deciding last year to put in an 18 hole golf course and 2000 condos [Big Boulder/Jack Frost] which to me was stupid on their part considering the average income of attendees is in the $150K a year ball park, talk about getting 10,000+ people with disposable income in one spot for 4 days...
The jeep jamboree's were also cancelled in the poconos for the same reason, CJ was held at Jack Frost, JJ was held at Big Boulder, we, BMJA, did both. Places like OK 4 wheel drive and Quadratec also setup store areas with just jeep stuff.

Damn, lost my keyboard and had to reboot...

The trails that are 'built with a backhoe' are minimal, these are used for the factory demo rides and no backhoes got in to the woods portions, they were only used to level the ground around the tent areas and build initial big hills [100+ft tall], two of my demo commanders had ripped off mirrors and bent doors . The off road trails were cut and cleared with minimal kibituzing by jeep, and yea, we had breakage, couple of oil pans and such but they were fixed quickly in some cases by jeep. Also when all you see in an area for a week are endless jeeps, mostly lifted and modded out the wazoo that draws alot of attention to the product which to me from a marketing prospective is free advertising [my computer business got a free shot in the arm when two of my customers showcased MY systems running snap-on shopkey and mitchell software in their repair shops on the local TV cable station], thats advertsing that you can't buy.

Sometimes, hell, many times, marketing people are stupid, penny wise and dollar foolish. Ask the two local jeep dealers around here about how many jeeps they sold after JJ's and CJ's not to mention they vanished out of the local classifieds and used lots for a couple of months.
Just my .02

 

[flexjay87]

ok, i stand somewhat corrected and educated about a firsthand event. would i still be wrong in assuming that the average person doesn't make 150k$ (and of those that do, many more will play golf than get their new jeep dirty) so it still begs the question, why with such local success, would the "party" be in jeopardy? don't get me wrong, i think it's fine for newbies, but could it be they are not retaining any real interest after the event? it sounds like there is a lot of interst at specified sites, but not enough nationwide to justify, their proposed budget. sounds like you guys have some good places for such an event though, and P.A. has some great wheeling for the enthusiast. i'll bet they would keep doin it if they sold all of those 200 jeeps they brought down! i'm sure it's still a numbers game, who knows what's goin on behind boardroom doors.....

 

[98XJSport]

How can camp jeep survive? It seems mostly a draw for jeep owners and a chance to show off the capabilities of the new jeep stuff, if from what Ive gathered is correct. Kind of a show of old stuff, current stuff, new stuff, all pulled together for the enjoyment of all. That is a good thing. But as jeep is offering fewer and fewer off road capable vehicles, its going to make it harder for Jeep's Marketing department to use camp jeep as a marketing tool. Hell, we've all seen the compass commercials.

Not that I don't want to see camp jeep survive, I would very much enjoy going to such an event if it wasn't for the price tag. I just don't think Jeep really wants it to survive, and if they're not on board, not much we say or do is gonna help.

 

[ECKSJAY]

J
This years was cancelled due to the property owners deciding last year to put in an 18 hole golf course and 2000 condos [Big Boulder/Jack Frost] which to me was stupid on their part considering the average income of attendees is in the $150K a year ball park, talk about getting 10,000+ people with disposable income in one spot for 4 days...

Please explain how this is 'stupid' on their part. IMHO it sounds like they got tired of not making money and came up wtih a REAL investment.

 

[RichP]

Please explain how this is 'stupid' on their part. IMHO it sounds like they got tired of not making money and came up wtih a REAL investment.

None of the off roading property was used for the golf course and condos. Camp Jeep itself was only using about 20 acres of a hillside that had been prepped for the event and the downhill racing event they were having. The nitley entertainment, dinner, concert, airshow, etc, was at pocono airport about 15 miles away. Parking at camp jeep and jeep jamboree at big boulder just used the 200+ acres for the ski area parking lots.
As for building 2000 condos, sheeeeeeet, the housing market here is so saturated with homes, both new and old, built on spec and model homes it's not even funny. The amount of commuters that have moved out since last year has created a huge housing surplus that the realtors still think they can get premium prices for. Oh, I guess I should also mention there are no real paying jobs in this area, you need to get about 40mi south or 60 mi east to find a decent one. About 30 miles north of us is wilkes barre/scranton, last count was about 30 colleges/universites with a 'cheaper than dirt' source of new graduates for the picking.
I think what suprised me the most, the BB/JF managment did not have a booth setup at either CJ or JJ. Almost like someone in their managment decided the attendees were below marketing to... "why would we want to market to a bunch of people who drive $25,000 jeeps with $5,000+ worth of accessories", gee, I dunno, maybe because they have MONEY to play with.
Me, I'll sell to anyone if I can get their attention.. but then I'm not an educated professional experienced marketing person so I don't know any better, I was even so naive that I gave out my business cards to the people I took out for trail rides and had to suffer thru building about 90 systems over the past year for them when they called me days or weeks later for a new PC... so I guess I don't recognize a bad marketing opportunity when it hits me upside the head and gets right in my face

 

[RichP]

How can camp jeep survive? It seems mostly a draw for jeep owners and a chance to show off the capabilities of the new jeep stuff, if from what Ive gathered is correct. Kind of a show of old stuff, current stuff, new stuff, all pulled together for the enjoyment of all. That is a good thing. But as jeep is offering fewer and fewer off road capable vehicles, its going to make it harder for Jeep's Marketing department to use camp jeep as a marketing tool. Hell, we've all seen the compass commercials.

Not that I don't want to see camp jeep survive, I would very much enjoy going to such an event if it wasn't for the price tag. I just don't think Jeep really wants it to survive, and if they're not on board, not much we say or do is gonna help.

Actually one of the dumb things they did was not provide enough parking for NON jeep attendees, on sat and sun people were walking 2+ miles in 95f degree weather from the hiway where they were parking on the shoulders which means some walked 3 miles+. If I had been the local jeep dealer I would have setup a temp tent, couple of salespeople, financing and let em shop, I'd also have run shuttle busses right to my tent. Talk about the old advertsing slogan 'I'd walk a mile for a camel' cigarette.

 

[ECKSJAY]

"why would we want to market to a bunch of people who drive $25,000 jeeps with $5,000+ worth of accessories", gee, I dunno, maybe because they have MONEY to play with.

I'd be willing to bank on them having a little bit of 'CREDIT' to play with, not money. People with higher credit limits TEND TO spend more on vehicles than a 'Jeep'. MAYBE .5% of my customers are in the 'I have money and have a Jeep' category. Yes, I'm in the aftermarket parts industry. Ask any of these vendors here how many customers they have who will drop more than $10k in one stop... In other words, I tend to agree with the side that says it wasn't worth their time to set up and talk to people with 'dinky' lines of credit.

Me, I'll sell to anyone if I can get their attention.. but then I'm not an educated professional experienced marketing person so I don't know any better, I was even so naive that I gave out my business cards to the people I took out for trail rides and had to suffer thru building about 90 systems over the past year for them when they called me days or weeks later for a new PC... so I guess I don't recognize a bad marketing opportunity when it hits me upside the head and gets right in my face

While 90 systems may seem like a big deal to you, it's still small potatoes in the big picture.

Sorry you lost the property/permission for Camp Jeep. Maybe someone will find you 20 acres in the abundance of cheap land you have out there. I'm not a big, professional marketing person either...but maybe some of your 90 rich clients could get together and pool their 'money' into BUYING 20 acres to hold future events on! Think of the revenue!!!

 

[flexjay87]

Rich, please don't bring common sense, and real needs to an event run by marketing gurus, they are trying to make money not spend it. i'm feeling so cynical lately, i need a nice factory job to stay away from the public, maybe somewhere in mexico, ahh, tequila..........

 

[RichP]

I'd be willing to bank on them having a little bit of 'CREDIT' to play with, not money. People with higher credit limits TEND TO spend more on vehicles than a 'Jeep'. MAYBE .5% of my customers are in the 'I have money and have a Jeep' category. Yes, I'm in the aftermarket parts industry. Ask any of these vendors here how many customers they have who will drop more than $10k in one stop... In other words, I tend to agree with the side that says it wasn't worth their time to set up and talk to people with 'dinky' lines of credit.

This is a different crowd, take a family of 4 to one and you just dropped over $1200, we had jeep owners from Hawaii [4 I think, I only met 2] who shipped their jeeps to calif and were following the CJ's around the country, one after another [must be nice ]. The attendees are an older bunch, most were in my age bracket and older, baby boomers.

While 90 systems may seem like a big deal to you, it's still small potatoes in the big picture.

Possible, 65 of the systems were media center systems in the $4-5,000 bracket, without monitors. I'd kill to figure out a way to build 10 of those a month on a consistant basis.

Sorry you lost the property/permission for Camp Jeep. Maybe someone will find you 20 acres in the abundance of cheap land you have out there. I'm not a big, professional marketing person either...but maybe some of your 90 rich clients could get together and pool their 'money' into BUYING 20 acres to hold future events on! Think of the revenue!!!

Actually the property is very reasonable out here, in bigger acreage [100+] it runs about $2,000 an acre, depends on whats around it, if it's in 'commuting' distance to anything, one of the reasons walmart has a huge warehouse and shipping center as well as napa and a dozen other corporations, warehouse space is cheap as well as labor. Housing lots, different story, though with the over stock of homes the farms have stopped vanishing at the rate they were.

I liked CJ because it payed $25 an hour to drive people off road in a $50K Hemi Commander that I did not have to worry about breakage on, you can't beat that with a stick

 

[RichP]

ok, i stand somewhat corrected and educated about a firsthand event. would i still be wrong in assuming that the average person doesn't make 150k$ (and of those that do, many more will play golf than get their new jeep dirty) so it still begs the question, why with such local success, would the "party" be in jeopardy? don't get me wrong, i think it's fine for newbies, but could it be they are not retaining any real interest after the event? it sounds like there is a lot of interst at specified sites, but not enough nationwide to justify, their proposed budget. sounds like you guys have some good places for such an event though, and P.A. has some great wheeling for the enthusiast. i'll bet they would keep doin it if they sold all of those 200 jeeps they brought down! i'm sure it's still a numbers game, who knows what's goin on behind boardroom doors.....

Actually all those jeeps that jeep supplies to the CJ's get destroyed at the end of the 'season' they are not allowed to sell them as used even and that includes the parts. They get crushed but then it's also a write off. I know there were a few badly bent ones at the end.

 

[hadfield4wd]

As someone who has attended a Camp Jeep it is not catering to hard-core off roaders. It is catering to the average person who buys a Jeep and want to see what can be done with it. It is all outdoor type activities. I consider myself hard core as far as the east coast goes. I will wheel anywhere and break my junk, fix it on the trail wheel some more then drive it home. I have 2 boys (ages 7 and 4) that love it. I also have a wife who doesn't want to spend weeks at Tellico or Paragon. I went for the first time several years ago with my XJ and oldest son. We loved it and my wife and daughter (9) came the next year. We came home on a Sunday. By Wednesday she had traded in the minivan for an '04 Grand. For various reasons we have been unable to attend the past couple of years.

We are hoping they don't discontinue it because I am saving vacation days to drive where ever it is with both Jeeps. Will I break something, probably not. Will the Kids have a great vacation and a chance to see another part of the country, yes. Both Jeeps are going. My wife will drive hers. I will follow on every trail. This is something that is well worth the effort for the vacation.

However also being in sales they need to see the ROI (Return On Investment) to make it worth while.

Matt

 

[OT]

Personally, I couldn't care less if Jeep ever built another vehicle.
As for Camp Jeep, I couldn't care less whether they keep it or tank it.
It's all part of DC's masterplan, to phase out all wheelability in it's vehicles.
The marketing department figures, everyone can just buy a compass and all get together at Camp Which Way?, now....
It'll just be a rally course with speed bumps and curbs.

 

[Wayne Sihler]

Does anybody know what the attendance figures were for the latest Camp Jeep? When it was held in Va the place was SOLD OUT,- Maybe the places it has been held lately don,t have the population area to draw from.Elkheart lake Wis. where the heck is that,Missouri some where in 03 ? The Poconos were a good place from the population area and accomidations.
Camp Jeep is NOT hard core,it is not geared toward them,it is family orinated(sp) and is for fun and games.
The area around Charlotsville Va would love to have it back it brings in a lot of $$$$$ to the area.
Wayne

 

[RichP]

Does anybody know what the attendance figures were for the latest Camp Jeep? When it was held in Va the place was SOLD OUT,- Maybe the places it has been held lately don,t have the population area to draw from.Elkheart lake Wis. where the heck is that,Missouri some where in 03 ? The Poconos were a good place from the population area and accomidations.
Camp Jeep is NOT hard core,it is not geared toward them,it is family orinated(sp) and is for fun and games.
The area around Charlotsville Va would love to have it back it brings in a lot of $$$$$ to the area.
Wayne

Yea, there is that too, one of my customers who owns the blakeslee inn was sold out months in advance room wise, it's normally where the nascar executives stay during nascar races at pocono, all the other motels were in the same conditon. So for sure it brings alot of money to the area that has it, 5,000+ jeeps are alot of jeeps I gotta say . There was also a shortage of state troopers looking for oversized tires too on that weekend so somebody must have passed the word, not like at PAP and RC where they have been known to wait till sat and sunday afternoons and sit right outside the park on humbolt st. I think that the owners 'resolved' that problem somehow, at least it has not been an issue so far this summer that I've heard about.
One of the positives from all the attendees at pocono CJ was 'this was great, no mud and plenty of big rocks to climb around on' aparently the southern ones lacked rocks but had no shortage of mud.

 

[EricT]

While this years CJ was not a sell out, they held it a week later than normal. Therefore, alot of people with families that come to CJ from the Southeast did not make the trip this year since their kids had started school. There was alot of people there though, but not as packed as CJ in Virginia.