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Any surveyors out there?

Fergie

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
Are any of you out there currently surveyors, or have been one in the recent past?

I'm teaching a lab right now, and we have fairly outdated equipment, and the class instructor hasnt been in the field for +10 years.

What equipment are you currently using? Total Stations or what?

From my experience, TS are the most common standard right now, but my experience is limited to one company, so input is encouraged.

Also, if youa re fairly skilled with a theatolite(sp?), drop me a PM so we can talk.

Thakns

Fergie
 
Total stations were the thing 6 years ago and we were slowly converting to GPS. That was in a small shop with only 3 two man crews.

Used the GPS for topo and roughing work though. Everything else was back to the total station. At that time the GPS was only within .05".

Most elevations on construction stakes were set with a standard level gun (transit). The total station (oldest one) was within .01" on elevation but required the operator to zero on the prizm perfectly. Very long distances didn't work well and the transit was quicker to setup and move.

The GPS equipment was a huge advantage on topo's though. We had two crews running an 80 acre field boarderd on two sides by a canal and a ditch on one side below the canal. The crew with the GPS had the canal (top on each side, bottom, frontage road, and down slopes) done before I had the field finished with a total station and data collecter.
 
I interned for a small firm three years ago and we tried to use our Leica GPS as much as possible, granted we mainly surveyed vast areas where you wouldn't even try using a transit and "the stick" (guess which job I got when we did use the transit :) ). Otherwise I pretty much ditto what Lincoln said.
 
Well, are we talking large scale earth moving kind of stuff, or small scale, very precise building layouts?

This prof still talks about using a plumb bob over the control point, when the Theat has a bombadier site.

THe TS we used this last summer was a 7" gun, and we always made the point to get withing 1-3".

Fergie
 
First I would like to say that I am supid. It wasn't .01 inches is was .01 feet. :doh:

We worked on housing subdivisions and commercial building lots. Pretty anal crews.

We always instructed contractors to work off the center of the hubs (2x2 stake hammered flush with the ground) on roadwork stuff. We were expected to have those within .03' (about 1/8"). Everyone hated putting tacks in the hubs and the contractors were happy with center.

Property pins were within the error of the station, .01'. They were hammered in and then adjusted to center. Though I did drill a few holes in concrete off slightly (.02-.03) and walked away like they were correct. :) Some firms used aluminum or brass caps then marked the exact after setting. We only did that on permanent bench marks (usually called stone monuments).

Laying out buildings we used a 4" pole on the 1.5" prism which brings the accuracy up especially on the 100' to 200' shots. Those were set with hubs then a small tack driven in for the centering point. We gave the corner of the building and two offsets (10' to 15') towards the outside of the corner. Those were also set one at a time. Total station on the first shooting to the second, then total station on the second shooting to the third. At the end you had to tie back to the first or start over.

We would always have two or three temporary bench marks depending on the size of the project and the location to monuments. I liked hammering an X into concrete or putting a nail in the street to be safe. Those were always marked center and as exact as we could get them.

As far as accuracy with the total station. All stations that I used had a sight similar to a scope and looked straight down through the hold down screw in the tripod (legs for short). First we roughed the sight in doing the rough level as we went. Then station was leveled finer first with a normal bubble level then fined in with the small bubbles checking two sides 90 degrees off. The checked the alignment through the sight to the bench mark. The retaining screw on the legs could be loosened and slid around some to get it on the mark then the fine level was checked again.

The standard pogo we used was 4' extendable to 7' with a point on the end and a 3" prism. There was a fine level (the shits in the wind) so you knew center of the prism was directly above the point on the pogo. Topoing the level wasn't as important, but expect the guy to come across the radio with harsh word if he could tell it was off. You could always tell the new guys because they would have a couple of lath or legs on the pogo to help with leveling.

The last full summer I worked I set 45 5/8"X3' rebar in a four lane street that has 30,000 cars a day run across it. It had to be one of the hottest weeks on record and the boss was to cheap to buy a longer bit for the drill. We'd drill 6" (got to remember this street has been overlaid a few times) then start swinging. Granted it wasn't Arizona hot at around 110 but I was sure I was going to die standing on that asphalt swing a 6 lb. sledge. Yes I still miss it some days.

Anyway, 3-4 inches would gain you a nice sized White boot in butt. I only used a plumb three times in four years and that was pulling offsets by hand for a stone (concrete in those cases) monument. And that was only when the monument was higher than ground level.

Also I've seen 3 or 4 inches at the gun (bench mark got messed with) be off 15'. By the time you turn an incorrect angle (need to known points and distance) and your running 400' or more it becomes quite a bit. Depends on a lot of things.
 
Damn Lincoln, scares me when you and I have such similar experiences. I did the EXACT same thing you did.

It'd be so hot by 8am some days that the gun couldnt get a good reading!

We had our two main points, Northstar and Southstar, and some other random points for QCing stuff.

We set about 10 points in an adjacent parking lot, each one being the W side of our north south lines.

The TS we use had a laser instead of the bomb site, so that was nice, although difficult to see in the sun sometimes.

As TBM, we had two on each side of our building. Two on the conc side, and two on the steel side. We had to shoot a lot of elevation for the subs as they couldnt read plans to save their lives.

We used either the peanut(prizm) on the ground(with a plumb bob point), or on a set of 4' legs.

All I know is that surveying has got to be one of the coolest things I have ever done, and am def. considering a bit more specializing in the area.

Fergie
 
I've been out of the field for a few years but spent 5 working with a guy doing mostly property boundary work, then 2.5 with a DOT crew doing highway/bridge construction stakeout.

The private guy used a Topcon GTS3B TS (ciphered his own numbers on a HP48) and the DOT party used Topcon or Sokkia TSs either stand alone (for level work) or ICW a TDS Husky data collector for stakeout. IMO the Husky was a buggy POS. It had some cool programs for doing curves, but was prone to crash at the worst possible time. That and being DOS based. Lately the DOT crews are getting GPS rigs, and unclear what data collection systems (maybe proprietary with the GPS maker) Some smaller firms are going to the one-man robotic TSs, though there is still a need for someone to tote the stake bag and swing the bushaxe.

After a few years in an air-conditioned/heated lab (QA testing construction materials) there is nothing remotely appealing to me about standing in the C/L of a busy road w/ no lane closure, valiantly trying to keep that bubble centered, hoping the tweaker semi-truck drivers or geriatric fossils don't mash ya into road pizza. That or standing hunched over, peering through a scope, watching the trucks try to mash your buddies.
 
Lincoln said:
First I would like to say that I am supid. It wasn't .01 inches is was .01 feet.
I knew that. (That you meant .01 feet, that is :) )
 
woody said:
After a few years in an air-conditioned/heated lab (QA testing construction materials) there is nothing remotely appealing to me about standing in the C/L of a busy road w/ no lane closure, valiantly trying to keep that bubble centered, hoping the tweaker semi-truck drivers or geriatric fossils don't mash ya into road pizza. That or standing hunched over, peering through a scope, watching the trucks try to mash your buddies.

Where is your sense of adventure? Maybe that's why I'm a dedicated web wheeler, I used mine up.
 
Once I had a man hole lid off measuring the inverts. Kneeling over a crap hole with a measuring stick it's not my idea of fun. While I was there some jacka$$ pulled up and instead of going around me started honking. I just stood up and walked away and he was to close to see the hole was still open.

The guy I was working with wasn't quite quick enough and said jacka$$ pulled forward and dropped the drivers side front tire square into the open hole.

1. Got yelled at by the guy I was working with.
2. Got yelled at by the jacka$$.
3. Got yelled at by the cop that showed up.
4. Got yelled at by my boss (owner of the firm) and he threatened to make me lick the philly rod we were measuring with. When I replied that at least I didn't hit the guy (another survey incident that got me yelled at a lot) he didn't even smile. We were a remote office so I got a call every morning for a few weeks, "Lincoln, what are you not going to do today?".
 
"I will not kill people while I'm working."
"I will not kill people while I'm working."
"I will not kill people while I'm working."
"I will not kill people while I'm working."
"I will not kill people while I'm working."
"I will not kill people while I'm working."
"I will not kill people while I'm working."
"I will not kill people while I'm working."
"I will not kill people while I'm working."
"I will not kill people while I'm working."

Sound like while I was running the maintenance crew at Adobe - six people (including me, I'm very much a "working boss,") supporting a total of 2500 serial whiners.

Some people are alive simply because it is illegal to kill them.

5-90
 
5-90 said:
Some people are alive simply because it is illegal to kill them.
5-90

I don't consider myself the sharpest tool in the shed, but I'm starting to believe that instead of "To stupid to live" it's, "To dumb to die".

Just a thought. :D
 
5-90 said:
Some people are alive simply because it is illegal to kill them.

5-90
Others are alive because Big Government has made it virtually impossible for natural selection ("Darwinism") to function.
 
Eagle said:
Others are alive because Big Government has made it virtually impossible for natural selection ("Darwinism") to function.

Stop being so logical. Those people are entertaining.
 
I'm new to surveying, been doing it for 3 weeks now. We primarily use GPS or robotic total stations, although we do still use total stations.
 
Lincoln said:
Stop being so logical. Those people are entertaining.

Fine. If we're going to keep them around for entertainment value, can we at least terminate the bloodline? Natural variation and normal mutation will ensure that we have a steady supply, and there's no reason to buy trouble when we get so much for free...

5-90
 
5-90 said:
Fine. If we're going to keep them around for entertainment value, can we at least terminate the bloodline? Natural variation and normal mutation will ensure that we have a steady supply, and there's no reason to buy trouble when we get so much for free...

5-90

Agreed.
 
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