89 cherokee stock timing issues...

[DarkoShadow]

While back I had a minor oil leak...
Hardly noticeable, but the then got worse until I would loose a quart every 10 days...

Time to work...

Leak was from distributor gasket failure. Easy enough...
Of course when taking out the distributor shaft itself, just to change the gasket I was prepared to just lift up and replace seal then drop it straight down in same location with same spin (still in time, no adjustments). Knowing this, I was completely taken off guard when seeing the shaft an lower gears completely ruined and cracked all over... just waiting to break off inside the block.

Wow... just yanked it all out.... obviously I'm buying a new shaft today.
Recently iv also noticed slight abnormalities when accelerating or putting the engine to work. Erratically idling at certain rpms... so on

wait .. ... shit...
how the shaft positioned when I just pulled it?

Ok, itll be more than just a 10min job.

Disconnect battery....
Tore electric fan out to reach crankshaft with ratchet... take out #1 plug... find tdc... arg...
really didn't want to do this..

Ok... found compression stroke.. tdc (pretty sure)
Computer will even it out if its close.... right?

1-5-3-6-2-4... got it...

Time to start and be done.
Crank.... crank... crank....

Crank... crank...

Pause... BAM!!! Loud ass backfire....



Ok, guess I got it wrong.
Plug #1 out... ratchet ready....

Back to tdc....
(I think.... really it should be this time... )

153624....

2nd attempt to start
Crank... cranck... put..put....putting along
700rpm... ticking. .. missing... looping...

Yes!... it runs again!.... (like crap.... but I'm close!) - turned it off quickly not to blow anything.

Alrighty... I'm pretty sure I'm like 1 tooth off...
removed shaft...
moved over just 1 single tooth...

3rd attempt to start...
Crank... crank... vroom!!

Yaye! -WAY better... ticking is gone... not sounding like shit...

And hey .. I dont see any oil coming out the bottom.
Time for a beer


Took it on a couple drives, wow... the acceleration... power under load... yea, its smooth. Best its driven in years.

Back home.
Wtf... oil?

Main oil plug now leaking...
well, at least that one will be much easier.

But... next day...

Crank... crank. . Crank. ..c...r..a..n..k.... c..r..a.n..k...
... vroom...

Dead battery?.... naw... its 2 years old...
Oil on starter?.. yea a little buildup. Removed and cleaned entire starter...

Still starting retarded like. Ok... hey iv got lifetime warranty on that starter...
Auto shop straight trades me a brand new starter

Installed new starter....
Still....
Starting ....
Like....
Shit......
Aahh.....

So... bad ground?... or wires?...
Sounds like a lack of power at crucial moment when the engine is just about to kick up and run.... like it has extreme compression just after first couple cranks. .then slow motion c.. r. .a..n..k..i..n. g..

Well?...
Ok... brand new battery red power wire and ground wire also cleaned/refreshed.

Wow...
Still. ..
Starting. ..
Shitty.....

But once its running, damn... runs amazing. Perfect idle, egr even kicks in every now an then.

So....
Battery?
Yea... autostore says battery life was going below 75%
Nice, they hook me up with brand new battery. Yes

New distributor shaft/rotor/cap
New starter
New starter power wire/grounds refreshed
New battery

What the holy hell...

Still...
Starts...
Awful....

Crank...crank. ... super slow.. ...c..r..a..n..k...... c..r..a..n..k....
... vroom!...


Getting frustrated...
Not wanting to open up that can of worms and attempt timing again...
Am I missing something?

Its getting a new oil change next couple weeks... it needs it... but how can I fix the extra delayed retarded start it's been doing?

Iv had to really lay into the starter before.... and it would just cycle...
Crank, crank, crank... until finally fires up.

But this has never happened before.
Super embarrassing at market, or gas station when it gets stuck in that last crank ... then I have to restart...

I know there are no problems with the fuel delivery. Pump works... fuel squirts... high/low rom... all good, great idle... just cant get past that lack of power start up.....


Help?

 

[DarkoShadow]

I have one 0of those R.E.M. that nickintime design put together...
https://nickintimedesign.wordpress.com

Awsome products.

When running around idle timing advanced about 15*..... then freeway speeds about 45*-50*

Is that too much? About right?

Am I another tooth off? Or can I get away with just moving around all the plug wires around the distributor cap?

 

[cruiser54]

OCTOBER 30, 2015 SALAD 23 COMMENTS EDIT
Firing Order

Renix dizzy indexing

Remove the distributor cap and cut a “window” into the side of the distributor cap at the #1 spark plug wire post . The “window” should be large enough to allow easy visual inspection of the position of the distributor rotor at the #1 spark plug wire post. Reinstall the distributor cap.
Use Tip 12 first to guarantee you’re on #1 TDC.
Install a ¾” wrench or socket onto the vibration damper retaining bolt. Rotate the engine in a clockwise direction until the #1 cylinder is at top dead center. Align the timing mark on the vibration damper with the “0” degree mark on the front cover timing scale. The tip of the distributor rotor should be near the #1 spark plug wire post.
Disconnect the distributor electrical connection. Remove the distributor holddown clamp, holddown bolt and distributor. Remove the distributor cap and rotor.
Place the distributor housing upside down in a soft jaw vise. Scribe a line 1/2 inch from the end of the distributor locating tab. Cut the distributor locating tab at the scribed line with a saw.
Remove any burrs and metal filings from the distributor. Reinstall rotor.
If necessary, using a flat blade screwdriver, turn the oil pump gear drive shaft until the slot is slightly past the 11 o’clock position. The oil pump gear drive shaft is accessible through the distributor mounting bore in the engine block. A little tip here. Rather than use a dizzy gasket, use an o ring instead. NAPA #727-2024.Dizzy o ring
Visually align the modified locating tab area of the distributor housing with the holddown clamp bolt hole.
Turn the rotor to the 4 o’clock position.Dizzy tab cuts
Lower the distributor into the engine block until it seats. The rotor should now be very close to the 5 o’clock position.
Reinstall the distributor cap with the cutout “window”. Rotate the distributor housing until the trailing edge of the distributor rotor tip is just departing from the #1 spark plug wire post terminal .
Reinstall the distributor holddown clamp and bolt.. Reinspect the position of the rotor to the #1 spark plug wire post to insure that it has not moved.
Install the new distributor cap, reconnect the distributor electrical connections.
Here’s WHY distributor indexing is so important:

Distributor indexing explained
For clarification though, that’s not a cam sensor inside the Renix dizzy. It’s there to fire the injectors sequentially with the firing order. You’ll never notice if it went bad because the ECU will try to “guess” where it is and does a heck of a job at it.

As for the “timing”, it is controlled by the ECU. Ever notice how wide the tip of the rotor is? Try and wrap your head around this:

When the ECU yells “Fire” to the ignition control module, where is the rotor in relationship to the dizzy terminal? Not to the terminal yet? Past the terminal too far?

What happens to the spark/secondary ignition strength when it has to jump the Grand Canyon in comparison to shooting from a rotor tip?

Use Tip 12 first to guarantee you’re on #1 TDC.

Revised 11-19-16

 

[DarkoShadow]

Ok, found problem.... I was 2 whole teeth away from have correct timing...
Removed distributor and reset to TDC... the computer must've had a hell of a time getting started... not sure how I was able to drive around at all.

Thanku 4 all the help... so nice to have it start right up now... and everytime I try