11 Sep 2001

[Mike in NJ]

Damn. I hate this day.

Too many innocent people, too many firefighters murdered.

And around here, every TV station, every radio station, every newspaper, every street corner, every look across the Hudson is a savage reminder of that day.

There's still a war on, and the scum keep murdering innocent folks around the world.

And our troops are still hunting down the evil. Won't be quick, won't be pretty, but this country better not get bored with the ugliness.

Don't want another date on the calendar that brings so much pain to the surface.

Remember, America.

Mike in NJ atriot:

 

[Backdraft]

:us: :us: :us:

Mike

 

[TRNDRVR]

atriot:

 

[2offroad]

FDNY
9-11-03
343
still manning the lines


that is a sticker that i have on my service van and XJ.

 

[Scott Mac]

Amen

 

[STRYKER]

Damn. I hate this day.

Too many innocent people, too many firefighters murdered.

And around here, every TV station, every radio station, every newspaper, every street corner, every look across the Hudson is a savage reminder of that day.

There's still a war on, and the scum keep murdering innocent folks around the world.

And our troops are still hunting down the evil. Won't be quick, won't be pretty, but this country better not get bored with the ugliness.

Don't want another date on the calendar that brings so much pain to the surface.

Remember, America.

Mike in NJ atriot:

Amen, Mike...
I don't understand those that don't understand what we're trying to do in Iraq and Afghanistan. Those are two places that A-Q is afraid to stick it's proverbial head out of it's cave.

As we move along in hunting down those responsible, the world will become increasingly smaller for the cowards that remain alive.

I join you in mourning the loss of those Americans who were just being themselves and doing what they did because of who they were.

I also worry that the weak-minded among us will forget the lessons of that attack, and that it will eventually lead to another attack that takes ten times that many because we (as a whole) didn't want to finish the job that Bush started......

 

[yellowxj]

Never forget.

 

[Lawn Cher']

I'm somewhat bothered by the blatantly passe nature of many people's patriotism. My Jeeps are some of the few vehicles that still have the Stars & Stripes blazoned on them, and we have a plethora of flags hung in my office. Very few of the people who initially raised a flag on their homes or vehicles 2 years ago still have them, and that disturbs me.

 

[Lucas]

The war on terrorism does not make the world smaller for terrorist groups and organizations, it only infringes on the rights of suspected people and gives incentive to those who would otherwise be classified as "radical" into bomb detonating terrorists. To curb terrorism we need to inspect WHY we were attacked... OK OK, sure, "they" hate freedom and the American way of life, but there is a reason for that and by not examining and understanding those reasons we cannot truly curb terrorism.

Let me open myself to flames and say that I detest this day. I hate the fact that in a mere two years it has made a transition from a terrible and guilty reminder into a celebration of America's policies on war and diplomacy. Though Cher' may not agree with what I say, I agree with his observation about passe' patriotism. This day has become a "checkpoint" for peoples patriotism, paying dues once a year by sticking up the stars and stripes as a token sign of solidarity.

I would go on but just thinking about today is making my blood boil.

9/11/01, Manhattan. I was there.
-Luke Son

 

[TC]

I agree with all of the above. My flag flew today (although nobody will see it where I live), and I was disappointed that so few were displayed.
People today are used to instant everything and think that in just a few months a war can be won and an entire country can be turned around; amazing.
The fact that election campaigns have begun doesn't help. The BS that the candidates are spewing is unbeliveable! (both figuratively and literally). The USA, Iraq, and the world will be better off due to our going into Iraq. War is not a video game, it's a rough, dirty business.
My heart goes out to all who have suffered on and since Sept. 11. My sincere thanks to all who sacrifice so the majority of us can sit in our comfortable homes and be safer as a result.
We must NEVER forget. TC

 

[sidriptide]

there he was this morning... standing on the highway overpass.. just his two small kids with him, not a crowd looking to rally behind a cause........... he stood silently, not waving as the occasional supporter honked in approval.... he just stood there holding his flag high and proud above himself and all of us around him.... he wasnt looking to be congatulated... for him i guess it just seemed like the right thing to do today.......

mike

 

[YELLAHEEP]

As Mike has spoken for the 343 Fire Fighters lost, I'll speak for the 60 Police/Port Authority Officers lost. I hate this day as well.

My idea of ultimate patriotism? A carpet-bombing campaign of the middle east, closure of our borders, and a seek-and-deport mission of all illegals in the U.S.

It's time to clean house..........

 

[GPRSDLYT]

i was across the river in d.c. that day, was working at the watergate. i ran a crew there. was on the roof when the plane went by. we all just froze......speachless. can imagine what ny was like.

 

[Lucas]

A carpet-bombing campaign of the middle east, closure of our borders, and a seek-and-deport mission of all illegals in the U.S.
It's time to clean house..........

Why?


Not trying to start chit for the sake of it, but do you understand the basic dynamics of the Middle east? Not trying to be resident expert of this thread, but im doing my thesis on certian political systems in Iraq/Jordan and American's propensity for blind "retaliation" is in a word --stupid--.
Perhaps Im too close to the matter and too informed not to be pissed. WTC/serach and rescue/ I was *there*.

 

[STRYKER]

American's propensity for blind "retaliation" is in a word --stupid--.
Perhaps Im too close to the matter and too informed not to be pissed. WTC/serach and rescue/ I was *there*.

While I respect you for having been there....
I have to draw issue with the quote above. Blind?

We know exactly who was responsible, exactly who was financing them, and exactly what they were in the market to purchase from whom. There are a great many people who can and will critisize the current administration's path.... and I look at every one of them and suspect they're probably eating from a spoon offered by the liberal press and those who are sore that Al Gore didn't get to deal with this. (THANK GOD he didn't!)

Our CIC told us that this would be long. It would be hard, and it wasn't going to be over in a year, 3 years or 5 years.....

We ALL need to stay the course, and get behind the hunt for those who are guilty and punish them....severely. That way, any other group contemplating similar course of action will think twice before engaging. To "*****foot" around with it in any less sever manner tells all who would act against us that the consequences of doing so are negligible.

When the Iranians took Russian officials hostage at about the time they took our hostages.... the Russian hostages were killed.
The Russians captured the relatives of those responsible and mailed out a body part to them every week....

To date....NO ONE else ever screwed with the Russians. The message was THAT clear.

Imagine a school yard, where several children begin to harass one child. If he shirks from confrontation with them, it enboldens the others.
But... If he kicks out and snaps one leg, grabs another and loosens teeth, the outcome is altogether different. He can come and go as he pleases thru the halls of that school.... CAUSE nobody wants to attempt to get his attention when they all now know the outcome of such an engagement.

This is the kind of action that enables "peace thru strength" initiatives. Force is demonstrated ....and then withdrawn (but it is made very clear that it will be escalated immediately if our interest are violated.)

It won out in the Cold War...cause the USSR didn't quite know how to take us. They did try to keep up, but never did they try to initiate...or provoke.
When we called them on our discovery of their actions in 1963, THEY backed down, not us.

Vietnam was lost because the liberal agenda kept the conservative one from realizing it's full potential. Had the Republicans been able to deal directly and independently, Vietnam would have taken a year.....and we'd have been victorious.....despite some not liking our tactics.

Just food for thought from a former political science major/ former Saudi security operative.

 

[Lucas]

I only have a min so ill be brief. Ill elaborate later.

-People engage in violent terrorists acts towards Russia almost daily.
-Where is a clear connection, financial or otherwise between the WTC attacks and Iraq? I've spoken with Scott Ritter, former USMC commander in Desert storm, CIA guru, and chief UN weapons,inspector in Iraq and he can find no such association.
-Do you really think a playground is an adequately complex analogy to the current situation?
- Despite what it looks like, we WON vietnam. The reconstruction of the country does not serve an adequately prosperous example for other southeast asian countries to adopt communism...THE publically stated goal from the onset.

 

[STRYKER]

I only have a min so ill be brief. Ill elaborate later.

-People engage in violent terrorists acts towards Russia almost daily.
-Where is a clear connection, financial or otherwise between the WTC attacks and Iraq? I've spoken with Scott Ritter, former USMC commander in Desert storm, CIA guru, and chief UN weapons,inspector in Iraq and he can find no such association.
-Do you really think a playground is an adequately complex analogy to the current situation?
- Despite what it looks like, we WON vietnam. The reconstruction of the country does not serve an adequately prosperous example for other southeast asian countries to adopt communism...THE publically stated goal from the onset.

I'd like to know of examples of anyone that ever detained or messed with Russia (pre-Glastnost)... for my own educational purposes. I'm not being a smart azz- I really am interested in knowing.

There was none proven, but there were several A-Q camps discovered in Iraq, as well as some attacks on troops moving thru that were accredited to Al-Queda members. Scott Ritter? The one who flipped his stories like a TV channel directory?

Sorry, that one lost all credibility with us when it became apparent that he was either paid off, or someone threatened his life and scared the hell out of him if he didn't sing a different tune.
Either way, he changed his story in an absolute 180 .... so please don't use him as a shining example of "fact"

Sure. But raise the ages a little if it'll help you comprehend.
We "walked" across Iraq to Bagdad in the fastest taking of an objective in all modern time. You really think that had nothing to do with Syria coughing up info and wanting to negotiate?
Even NK looked around and stopped it's banter for a short while.
(NK is ALL about "posturing"....as you know)

Interesting thoughts about Vietnam..... I'll have to reflect on them today before I actually comment. I'm off for work, but I enjoy the exchange of opinions as long as they are informed....which yours are.

Regards,

Deano

 

[Jeep Biscuit]

Just food for thought from a former political science major/ former Saudi security operative.

Are you still a special agent to the directorate vice president of the special assistance to the Pentagon Joint cheifs ?:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

 

[Eagle]

My idea of ultimate patriotism? A carpet-bombing campaign of the middle east, closure of our borders, and a seek-and-deport mission of all illegals in the U.S.

I'm not sure I can support the first of these ideas, 'cause I sort of feel that makes us no better than them, but I sure agree with the second and third!

 

[Eagle]

- Despite what it looks like, we WON vietnam. The reconstruction of the country does not serve an adequately prosperous example for other southeast asian countries to adopt communism...THE publically stated goal from the onset.

Sorry, I was there. We absolutely, unequivocably did NOT "win" in Vietnam. We had our a$$es handed to us and we turned tail and ran home. How can you even think of suggesting we "won" when the bad guys (if that's what they were) were so hot on our tail that the last planes out of Saigon were taking fire as they lifted off?

Vietnam was not a victory, it was a debacle.