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WJ Knuckle conversion w/ hub conversion...

JNickel101

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Alamogordo, NM
Ok, so I'm gonna be doing the WJ knuckle and brake conversion (WJ Calipers) and I also wanted to do a Warn Hub conversion. I was looking at the kit from EMS Offroad b/c the price isnt bad, plus they use some upgraded parts.

Emailed them to see if their kit was available with the Ford Explorer Sport Trac rotors that I've been told I'll need to use. They replied saying their kit would not work with a WJ knuckle swap.

For the life of me, I cant figure out why...and the dude wouldnt actually explain why, just said they have a kit "in the works" that would work with the WJ conversion.

Can anyone explain/educate me as to what I'm missing? What about their kit doesn't allow it to work with WJ knuckles/brakes?
Thanks!
MrF

http://www.emsoffroad.com/EMS_New/home.htm
 
Probably has something to do with the rotors. I bet if you actually bought the kit and then adapted as you went along everything should bolt up. Unless, the kit does something about the rotor mounting surface distance to mess up caliper alignment. All they are really doing is machining a custom spindle that will allow use of a Dana 44 wheel hub and then they drill a 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern in the wheel hub. Nothing any decent machinist couldn't figure out. The biggest issue with bolt-on lockout hub systems for the late model Jeep Dana 30 and 44 (87-2006) is the very large 3 bolt spindle pattern doesn't match any factory spindle diameter, nothing you could even re-drill.
 
Looks like I gotta get smart on what each part is - I understand most of what you're saying - but the "3 bolt spindle pattern" has me kinda lost...
 
JNickel101 said:
Looks like I gotta get smart on what each part is - I understand most of what you're saying - but the "3 bolt spindle pattern" has me kinda lost...


You know the unit-bearing hub bolt pattern that it attachs to the knuckle with?
 
AH, yes, ok...gotcha...

Making sense now. I'm still trying to figure out why they think their kit doesnt work WJ knuckles, since that 3 bolt pattern is the same. The rotor problem is an easy fix (Explorer Sport Trac Rotors)
 
I'd bet it'd work, the company probably just didn't want to tell you it'd work, and then had you come yelling and screaming if it doesn't. I mean, better safe than sorry and I doubt they wanted to be held responsible. I'd give it a shot if I were you; if it doesn't work, it's all reversable and returnable if need be.
 
Good point :)

funny, he did mention in one of his emails to me about how they had problems with returns on their original product, because they used the "standard" hubs from WARN and not the "premium" ones that are included with their kit now....seemed like he was complaining about product returns....
 
I know the warn 5 on 5.5 kit will work with WJ outers. You just don't turn down the rotor.
55conv004.jpg
 
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Yep, I know, I even mentioned that I have the 1/4" spacer, and they STILL said it wouldnt work, that they are "developing" a hub kit to work with the WJ knuckle...

krawler, what do you mean "turn down the rotor"? is that an Explorer Sport Trac rotor in your pic?
 
JNickel101 said:
Yep, I know, I even mentioned that I have the 1/4" spacer, and they STILL said it wouldnt work, that they are "developing" a hub kit to work with the WJ knuckle...

krawler, what do you mean "turn down the rotor"? is that an Explorer Sport Trac rotor in your pic?

With the warn 5 on 5.5 kit you use a wide track CJ rotor. With the CJ rotors, the studs hold the hub and rotor together.

With stock brake calipers you need to turn down the hat and dia to make the kit work. They tell you the specs in the directions. Since the WJ calipers are larger you don't need to do the machine work to them.

The probally say it won't because of the spacer issuse and WJ have CV shafts not U-joint shafts like an XJ. Since you need to change the outer stub shaft to a 30 spline and a differnt style.
 
Interesting, I didnt realize the CJ rotor would still work. I thought you had to go to the Ford Explorer Sport Trac rotors (or maybe that is if you use the 5x4.5 kit).

Thanks for the info krawler!

EDIT: yep, just checked on napaonline.com and sport trac rotors are 5x4.5...
 
Not adding much just that I did the 5 on 5 1/2 warn premium with WJ brakes and stuff...Had a hell of a time with the wheel studs go figure but let me know if I can send ya some pics... one of these days I'll post what I did on my trash...
~s
 
I havent made it back yet to do this swap (still 2 months left in this lovely place). I'm still up in the air with what i want to do. The more $$$ I see the warn hub kit costing, plus the apparent problems with lining things up, I just dont know...I need to get my hands on this and see exactly what all the "jibba jabba" is about (quote: Mr T)

Since Reid racing released their D30 flat top/hi-steer style knuckle, I've looked at maybe doing that instead...but I havent exactly found which hubs or brakes would be ideal to use.

Another part of me just wants to get the Alloy USA 30 spline inners/outers/unitbearings and say screw it...just do that. I've already got a 30 spline carrier, so 30 spline inners are a must....

how about you?
 
Whelp, my alloy-usa 30 spline stubs and unit bearings came off the jeep last night, and are sitting on the bench tonight. My 30 spline inners are now mated to warn 30 spline stubs, and my CTM's have new bushings and caps. I moved my MT/R's over from my 5x4.5 wheels to a set of 5x5.5 champion beadlocks, and then I noticed I was running the air compressor and grinder at 11pm and shut it down for the night.

If you're stayin 5x4.5, the alloy-usa setup is worth every damn penny. You WILL be on custom unit bearings, so buy a third, or keep a 2000+ 27 spline unit bearing + stock stub around in the unlikely event you bust a unit bearing (i did that once, jumped about six feet in the air).

If you really want hubs, or want to get 5x5.5, the warn setup looks nice. Remind me about this thread sunday and I'll let you know EXACTLY how the fitment was. ;)

If I hadn't already done the WJ setup, I'd probably be looking at the reid knuckles .. but most of the peeps I know who run d44 stuff think the d30 outers are stronger, so it may not really be an upgrade.


I personally think you will find nothing stronger than the alloy-usa setup though. I'd offer you mine, but I already promised it to someone. I'm afraid I am stepping "down" in strength - but I own 4 vehicles, 2 are already 5x5.5, this will make 3 out of 4. The 4th is a front wheel drive honda civic and will probably get by without being the 'same'.

;)
 
Awesome, thanks for the info - looking forward to hearing about the rest of your install.

Thanks for the info about the Reid knuckles. I already have all the parts to do the WJ swap, so I'll probably just stick with that.

Since I need 30 spline inners anyway, I'll probably just get the whole "package deal" from Alloy USA, plus a spare unit bearing/stub (again, thanks for the advice, didnt think about that part)

With that setup, do you just need the JKS 1/4" spacer and nothing else? The rotors are the Explorer Sport-trac ones, right?

Thanks! :D
 
Alright. If you want to go 5x5.5, this is the way to do it. If you don't feel a need to change bolt patterns, stick with timken unit bearings and alloy-usa stubs. I don't feel either has an advantage in strength or complication. I wouldn't go through the trouble for a 5x4.5 hub kit though.

With unit bearings (27 spline or alloy-usa 30 spline).

WJ knuckles with .250" JKS spacer welded on. 2000+ XJ/TJ unit bearings with WJ rotors redrilled 5x4.5. I have no experience with the sport-track ford rotors. You need to put a spacer between the WJ knuckle and the caliper mount (the calipers use a mount to mount to the knuckle, they do not mount directly). I used a 1/8" grade 8 washer. "sketchy" but I had no problem with it.

Unfortunately, I never took a picture of that setup, but you can sort of see it here.

shock2.jpg



If you are going with the warn 5x5.5 hub kit, there are two (or three) things you have to do. Read these instructions all the way through before attempting to follow them, as I'm not really putting it all in order.

First, the Warn instructions say to machine the CJ-7 rotor to cut the hat and outside diameter .. don't do it. That part was easy.

The kit has a 3/16" spacer that goes between the hub and the rotor. DO NOT INSTALL IT. Just skip it. That part is easy too. This will however make the non threaded portion of your wheel studs 3/16 too long. You can do one of two things to fix this:

1) install the 3/16 spacer OUTSIDE of the hub, between the hub and wheel. Doing this would work fine, and increase your track width by 3/8 - which would be nice.. but I don't like having parts that may fall off when changing a wheel in the mud and leave me unable to tighten my wheel studs down.

So, I spent an hour digging through the dorman catalog and found:

2) Replace the wheel studs with dorman part '610-219.1'. Its a nearly identical wheel stud, 1/8" shorter hat but the same overall length. You can STILL put the 3/16 spacer on the outside if you want, but if its missing you will be able to tighten your wheel down. ;) This is pretty easy too.


Other than that, install the kit as normal. The second problem you will have is that your caliper will not be centered on the rotor. Its off by a bit more than 1/8". I talked to a bunch of people, read a bunch of writeups, and saw some really sketchy fixes. There are a couple of good ones, and IMHO the best is to machine .130" off of the outside of the caliper mount on the knuckle. I went to a local machine shop, it took them 15 minutes and cost me $20.

(look at the shiny bits).

hub-kit-knuckle-machined.jpg


Easy stuff. Leave the spacer off, replace the wheel studs, don't machine the rotors, machine the knuckle. Bolt together. Install shiny wheel.

hub-kit-outside.jpg


As an added and unexpected bonus, my track width seems to be just a hair wider even without the 3/16" spacer. I was "fine" before, but now I have just a bit more clearance to my steering - which was a tight fit before.

Before:

steering.jpg


After:

hub-kit-inside.jpg
 
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