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  #1  
Old September 24th, 2004, 11:39
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2xtreme 2xtreme is offline
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Flat Towing/Dolly Towing/Lockers ?

I think I read all of the towing proceedures and I believe I understand them all and how they apply to my 89 xj with Auto, 231 D30 and D35. Please correct me if I am wrong:

Dolly Towing: Disconnect Rear drive shaft, Front tires on Dolly

Flat Towing: Transfercase in Neutral, Transmission in Park, Key in First position (so steering does not lock).

This will work for my while my axles are both open Diff. My rear question is when I weld up my rear axle and add a locker or weld my front diff and I flat tow the jeep? My thought was that the rear axle is probably fine with a locker or welded. The front I am not as sure about. My thought was to make my vacume disconnect mechanical so that each tire is seperate in the front. Any experience with this. Can I flat tow it locked or welded front and rear and if so how? Or should I get a tow dolly and disconnect the rear axle?

Thanks, for any advice or experience.
Michael
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  #2  
Old September 24th, 2004, 11:55
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Re: Flat Towing/Dolly Towing/Lockers ?

If it's a "lunchbox" locker like a powertrax or something, just disconnect the front driveshaft too. It's unlocked when there's no torque applied to it (free-wheeling). If it's welded, then your disconnect idea is a good plan. Hell, it's a good plan anyway for tight corners on the trail.

BTW, don't expect that D35 to last very long with any moderate-sized tires after you weld it. An aquaintance welded his D35 and the spider gears exploded the next day just going up a small hill climb off road.
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  #3  
Old September 24th, 2004, 15:37
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Re: Flat Towing/Dolly Towing/Lockers ?

Wouldn't putting the t case in 4 neutral disconnect the hubs, negating the fact that your diffs are locked?
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  #4  
Old September 24th, 2004, 18:00
Kevin3151 Kevin3151 is offline
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Re: Flat Towing/Dolly Towing/Lockers ?

I flat tow mine all the time with a lunchbox locker in the front d30. It is just fine. Im not sure I would ever want to lincoln lock a front diff.
tcase in neutral and tranny in park and column unlocked of course.
KH
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  #5  
Old September 24th, 2004, 18:31
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Goatman Goatman is offline
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Re: Flat Towing/Dolly Towing/Lockers ?

Welded D35's can break on the street....it's happened. That wouldn't be a good thing if you were towing it at the time. Welded D30's are about as bad an idea as anyone can have regarding drivetrain stuff, for a number of reasons, and would be a very bad idea for flat towing.

Until the recent models, the 231 t-case goes into 4wd mode when in nuetral, so the t-case is disconnected from the trans but the axles are connected. With open diffs this isn't a problem, and with an automatic locker in the rear it's not a problem. It starts to be a problem when automatic lockers are in both front and rear axles, because now the t-case is going to have to withstand the force of scuffing the tires a little bit.

I have a friend who had Lockrights front and rear and he flat towed his YJ behind his motorhome. It worked fine for a good while, a few years, but one trip on the way home it grenaded. Twisted both driveshafts, broke the t-case housing and broke the bellhousing. Too much damage to figure out what happened eaxactly, I just wouldn't flat tow a rig with front and rear automatic lockers unless you had a disconnect front end, and the disconnect was manually operated. One very real possibility on my friends situation is that the disconnect motor wore out and didn't disengage, or the vacuum line came off, or he slipped it into nuetral with the engine off and there wasn't vacuum to disengage the disconnect.
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  #6  
Old September 24th, 2004, 21:33
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Re: Flat Towing/Dolly Towing/Lockers ?

Quote:
Flat Towing: Transfercase in Neutral, Transmission in Park, Key in First position (so steering does not lock).
I wouldn't put the Transmission in Park. I used to put mine in Neutral. Then if the t-case shifter gets bumped you're not ramming everything into Park while rolling down the highway. If I was heading out on a long trip I would spend the time and pull the 8 bolts at the diffs and bungee up the drive shafts.
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  #7  
Old September 24th, 2004, 22:32
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Re: Flat Towing/Dolly Towing/Lockers ?

Thanks for all the info. I understand the issues with welding diff's and the extra stress. And I have not decided that that is what I will eventually do. I might use lockers instead (still working on the details). I just wanted to make sure that I considered these things before I decide how I am going to set up my jeep for towing (I plan on doing it reasonably regularly) and although disconnecting the drivelines is not that big of a deal, I really would prefer to find a good solution that did not require that.

Sounds like as long as I can disconnect the front D30 (with the vacume disco operated manually) then the front should be fine. Obviously there will be extra stress on the rear axle during towing with a welded dif. Would that stress be gone if I used a lunch box locker instead?

Thanks for all the advice and info. I really appreciate it.

Thanks,
Michael
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  #8  
Old September 24th, 2004, 23:53
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Re: Flat Towing/Dolly Towing/Lockers ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xtreme
Sounds like as long as I can disconnect the front D30 (with the vacume disco operated manually) then the front should be fine. Obviously there will be extra stress on the rear axle during towing with a welded dif. Would that stress be gone if I used a lunch box locker instead?

Thanks,
Michael
Yes, there is no stress on the axles when using any automatic locker, including a lunchbox locker. There is no scuffing of the tires because the locker allows for differentiation (one tire spinning faster than the other) when turning.

Another solution to the flat towing scenario, and a good one, is a 2 low kit. The Tera Mfg 2 low kit also provides for a true neutral, meaning that the front and rear axles are not connected when the t-case is in the neutral position. For about $200 for the kit, this can be a real bargain, and you get 2wd low range.
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  #9  
Old September 26th, 2004, 09:49
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Re: Flat Towing/Dolly Towing/Lockers ?

I had the same question. Sounds like the 2low mod is the cheapest. Front ARB $600+ compressor, front Hub kit $900.

Thanks for all the advice
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  #10  
Old September 28th, 2004, 15:25
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Re: Flat Towing/Dolly Towing/Lockers ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatman
Yes, there is no stress on the axles when using any automatic locker, including a lunchbox locker. There is no scuffing of the tires because the locker allows for differentiation (one tire spinning faster than the other) when turning.

Another solution to the flat towing scenario, and a good one, is a 2 low kit. The Tera Mfg 2 low kit also provides for a true neutral, meaning that the front and rear axles are not connected when the t-case is in the neutral position. For about $200 for the kit, this can be a real bargain, and you get 2wd low range.
Thanks Goatman, That was exactly what I was looking for. I will probably go with the 2 low kit if I continue to flat tow it when I install the lockers or weld (still deciding).

Thanks,
Michael
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  #11  
Old September 28th, 2004, 15:48
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XJ_ranger XJ_ranger is offline
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Talking Re: Flat Towing/Dolly Towing/Lockers ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xtreme
I understand the issues with welding diff's and the extra stress. And I have not decided that that is what I will eventually do.
why would anyone weld spider gears when a spool will only run someone like 150.00 that does the same thing without weakening parts?
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  #12  
Old September 30th, 2004, 00:54
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Re: Flat Towing/Dolly Towing/Lockers ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XJ_ranger
why would anyone weld spider gears when a spool will only run someone like 150.00 that does the same thing without weakening parts?
The axles don't know the difference between a spool or welded spider gears......they get stressed and can break either way. I don't understand why anyone would run a spool. You said it's $150, plus a gear setup. A lunchbox locker is $200-250 and doesn't require a gear set up, and is easier on the axles and much easier on the tires.

Spools aren't bad, if that's what someone really wants. I just don't see them as the cheap alternative that most propose them to be, not when you factor in the accelerated tire wear that you don't get with a locker. One set of tires puts you over the cost of a good automatic locker.
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Old October 7th, 2004, 16:54
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Re: Flat Towing/Dolly Towing/Lockers ?

Richard/others:

I just traded my 94' Wrangler for a 85' CJ-7 with spools front and rear on 37" mtrs (full width axles and 101" wb). I plan on flat towing this vehicle behind my 98' grand cherokee. What will I need to do to tow it with a dana 30 w/ the twin stick conversion? I just got it, so I don't know too much about yet. I have manual hubs with the dana 44 front, so I know I could unlock these, but should I put the t-case and manual SM465 4 speed in neutral? I doubt I want/can smog this thing so I plan on flat towing it to 4 wheeling outings. I just had my tranny rebuilt in my 98' grand cherokee 4.0L, np242, dana30/35, 42RE auto. Would it help to put my t-case in 4 wheel full-time to help with the towing and lesson the stress on the dana 35 rear axle? Please advise.
thanks...Troy
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  #14  
Old October 8th, 2004, 14:48
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Re: Flat Towing/Dolly Towing/Lockers ?

???
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  #15  
Old October 9th, 2004, 06:33
ChicksDigWagons ChicksDigWagons is offline
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Re: Flat Towing/Dolly Towing/Lockers ?

Could always just upgrade to 3/4 ton running gear.

Just pull the shafts on a Dana 60 and unlock the hubs on a Dana 44...Problem solved!

If only all lifes problems were so easy to solve.
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