NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association  

Go Back   NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association > NAXJA Unibody Jeep Technical Forums > Jeep Cherokee XJ (1984 - 2001) > OEM Tech Discussion
HOME Member FAQ Sponsor Info Rules Bylaws E-Mail

OEM Tech Discussion Forum for OEM (Original Equipment) or stock XJs and MJs.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 13th, 2009, 07:51
xjtrailrider's Avatar
xjtrailrider xjtrailrider is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roanoke VA
Posts: 7,667
Greg Smith power door lock questions???

I'm getting things together to do this upgrade since my 90 XJ's door locks have finally gotten too weak to work properly.

I have the relays and sockets but the write up is a little vague on a few things. Greg has the new power source going into 87 and 87a going to ground? Won't this cause a short?

Also his write up doesn't get into very good detail about the wiring schematic. If you read the following write up you will see what I'm talking about;http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=983428. I need a schematic to work by since I suck at word problems I sat down this am to draw out my own schematic but the write up leaves too many details too vague to even guess at, a schematic would clear it all up and should be added to the write up.

Some one help me out here, I want my door locks back!

TIA
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old December 13th, 2009, 08:25
MT Mike's Avatar
MT Mike MT Mike is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Helena, MT
Posts: 3,408
Re: Greg Smith power door lock questions???

I've done this on at least 4 XJs with no wiring schematic and never had an issue. The write up is pretty cut and dry (IMO). Don't over think it, just follow the instructions and it WILL work.

Maybe someone else out there has a schematic they sketched up?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old December 13th, 2009, 09:10
xjtrailrider's Avatar
xjtrailrider xjtrailrider is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roanoke VA
Posts: 7,667
Re: Greg Smith power door lock questions???

Quote:
Originally Posted by MT Mike View Post
I've done this on at least 4 XJs with no wiring schematic and never had an issue. The write up is pretty cut and dry (IMO). Don't over think it, just follow the instructions and it WILL work.

Maybe someone else out there has a schematic they sketched up?

A couple of the issues I have are;

My relays are not marked "87" and "87a", both terminals on each relay are marked "87" so thats a problem or does it matter?

Is one relay for the lt green wire and one for the tan wire? I say this because he only talks about "cutting the lt green and tan wire(singular) about 5 inches forward towards the front of the Jeep". Is there a lt green/tan wire in that area or is there only a lt green and tan wires in that area?

What is the "trigger" wire for each relay? and what color wire should be hooked to "30" on the first relay, its not stated in the write up other than "30 is the path to the lock"

I'm not trying to overthink it, I just want to get it right and the write up is vague in some area's. A schematic would clear it up for me.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old December 13th, 2009, 10:31
Pelican Pelican is offline
NAXJA Member #1191
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,134
Re: Greg Smith power door lock questions???

87 and 87a terminals are different -- you need a 5 terminal relay.

Here is one schematic: http://www.jeeptuning-foto.com/album...two-relays.pdf

I did the mod many years ago but cannot attest to the accuracy of the schematic with just a glance.

you need to do a search in OEM tech to find all of the answers to your questions.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old December 13th, 2009, 10:42
MT Mike's Avatar
MT Mike MT Mike is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Helena, MT
Posts: 3,408
Re: Greg Smith power door lock questions???

Quote:
Originally Posted by xjtrailrider View Post
A couple of the issues I have are;

My relays are not marked "87" and "87a", both terminals on each relay are marked "87" so thats a problem or does it matter?

Is one relay for the lt green wire and one for the tan wire? I say this because he only talks about "cutting the lt green and tan wire(singular) about 5 inches forward towards the front of the Jeep". Is there a lt green/tan wire in that area or is there only a lt green and tan wires in that area?

What is the "trigger" wire for each relay? and what color wire should be hooked to "30" on the first relay, its not stated in the write up other than "30 is the path to the lock"

I'm not trying to overthink it, I just want to get it right and the write up is vague in some area's. A schematic would clear it up for me.
Lt green and tan are the ONLY wires cut/spliced. The rest of the power and ground needs to be run directly to battery by you. Here is another thread were Greg chimes in quite a bit: More power door lock info. It may or may not make it a little clearer for you. I just found the same diagram that Pelican posted and it looks accurate. As far as your relays being different, I have no idea if they'll work that way. I had picked up a handful of the OEM relays from the junkyard over the years, and that is what I used. I know Greg mentions that he has picked up the same relays at various auto parts stores in the past.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old December 13th, 2009, 10:49
xjtrailrider's Avatar
xjtrailrider xjtrailrider is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roanoke VA
Posts: 7,667
Re: Greg Smith power door lock questions???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelican View Post
87 and 87a terminals are different -- you need a 5 terminal relay.

Here is one schematic: http://www.jeeptuning-foto.com/album...two-relays.pdf

I did the mod many years ago but cannot attest to the accuracy of the schematic with just a glance.

you need to do a search in OEM tech to find all of the answers to your questions.
Thats what I'm looking for! Can some one verify if the schematic is correct? I think I'm going to have to pick up some different relays as well.

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by MT Mike View Post
Lt green and tan are the ONLY wires cut/spliced. The rest of the power and ground needs to be run directly to battery by you. Here is another thread were Greg chimes in quite a bit: More power door lock info. It may or may not make it a little clearer for you. I just found the same diagram that Pelican posted and it looks accurate. As far as your relays being different, I have no idea if they'll work that way. I had picked up a handful of the OEM relays from the junkyard over the years, and that is what I used. I know Greg mentions that he has picked up the same relays at various auto parts stores in the past.
Helpful! Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old December 13th, 2009, 15:35
Pelican Pelican is offline
NAXJA Member #1191
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,134
Re: Greg Smith power door lock questions???

A relay with two 87 terminals and no 87a terminal is a specialty configuration often used to control something like two headlamps with one relay.

You need a 5-terminal relay with both an 87 terminal and an 87a terminal. The 30 and 87a terminals provide a "normally closed" circuit; that is, current is allowed to flow until the actuating coil is energized and the contacts separate. At that time, the 30 and 87 terminals close and allow current flow in the "normally open" configuration.

An inexpensive source for automotive relays (other than the junkyard) is Parts Express: http://www.parts-express.com/wizards...AT&srchCat=746

They currently have name brand (Tyco/Bosch) 5pin relays on for $2.75 rated at 20/30 amps ( NC contacts 20a/NO 30a). They have relays with other ratings as low as ~$1.69.

For a much broader selection of electrical supplies go to Del City, also with good prices on relays with higher amp ratings: http://www.delcity.net/navi?action=home

With the schematic you have probably sorted out the trigger wires but in any event, these are the green and tan wires on the schematic that go to the 86 terminals.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old December 13th, 2009, 17:31
xjtrailrider's Avatar
xjtrailrider xjtrailrider is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roanoke VA
Posts: 7,667
Re: Greg Smith power door lock questions???

Thanks everyone for the help. I will pick up some 5 blade relays tomorrow and fix these locks for good!

I think for future searchers it would be nice to add the schematic to the write up in the FAQ section. That could have saved me a few of the questions I had.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old December 13th, 2009, 20:36
MT Mike's Avatar
MT Mike MT Mike is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Helena, MT
Posts: 3,408
Re: Greg Smith power door lock questions???

Quote:
Originally Posted by xjtrailrider View Post
Thanks everyone for the help. I will pick up some 5 blade relays tomorrow and fix these locks for good!

I think for future searchers it would be nice to add the schematic to the write up in the FAQ section. That could have saved me a few of the questions I had.
I will see if I can get that done.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old December 17th, 2009, 11:07
xjtrailrider's Avatar
xjtrailrider xjtrailrider is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roanoke VA
Posts: 7,667
Re: Greg Smith power door lock questions???

For those who may be searching:

You can get the relays and sockets from NAPA if you prefer to buy locally. The part numbers are;

20a 5 pin relay by ECHLIN, NAPA part# AR272
5 pin relay socket (single relay) (called a connector by ECHLIN) NAPA part# EC23

I ordered my relays and dual socket from the linked supplier in Gregs write-up but these parts are just as good but more expensive.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old December 19th, 2009, 13:41
xjtrailrider's Avatar
xjtrailrider xjtrailrider is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roanoke VA
Posts: 7,667
Re: Greg Smith power door lock questions???

I got around to doing this today and although it fixed both rears and the pass side front(which has always worked) the drivers front door is still not working. It locks but will only unlock halfway.

Any suggestions?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old December 19th, 2009, 15:00
MT Mike's Avatar
MT Mike MT Mike is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Helena, MT
Posts: 3,408
Re: Greg Smith power door lock questions???

Quote:
Originally Posted by xjtrailrider View Post
I got around to doing this today and although it fixed both rears and the pass side front(which has always worked) the drivers front door is still not working. It locks but will only unlock halfway.

Any suggestions?
You may have to take your door panel off and clean the old lock mechanism up. I had to do the same thing on one of the XJs I did this on. There was some kind of lube that had become a thick nasty paste that was impeding the movement of the lock, especially when cold. The other three didn't have that issue, so I did not take those apart. HTH.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old December 19th, 2009, 16:01
5-90's Avatar
5-90 5-90 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hammerspace
Posts: 18,821
Re: Greg Smith power door lock questions???

Standard wiring pattern for DIN relays:
- 30 is Power Feed from source (usually battery or distribution)
- 85 is Relay Trigger from switch
- 86 is ground

The next two get a little spotty...

FOUR-PIN RELAYS: Pin 87 is the "normally open" contact, and is power to the consumer.

FIVE-PIN RELAYS: Two variations here:
- If there are two pins labelled "87", then both of them are "normally open" and can be used to feed two different circuits. Think of this one as a logical AND - either circuit 1 AND circuit 2 are ON, or circuit 1 AND circuit 2 are off.
- If you have "87" and "87a", "87" is normally OPEN and "87a" is normally CLOSED. This is known as a "changeover" relay - when you trip it, the two terminals will change state. So, it's a logical OR - one circuit will be on OR the other.

"normally open" - these contacts are turned OFF until power is applied to the relay.
"normally closed" - these contacts are turned ON until power is applied to the relay.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old December 19th, 2009, 16:21
xjtrailrider's Avatar
xjtrailrider xjtrailrider is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roanoke VA
Posts: 7,667
Re: Greg Smith power door lock questions???

Thanks Jon, yes I did get the 5 pin relays with 87 and 87a terminals although I didnt the first time a picked up some relays.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old December 19th, 2009, 16:22
xjtrailrider's Avatar
xjtrailrider xjtrailrider is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roanoke VA
Posts: 7,667
Re: Greg Smith power door lock questions???

Quote:
Originally Posted by MT Mike View Post
You may have to take your door panel off and clean the old lock mechanism up. I had to do the same thing on one of the XJs I did this on. There was some kind of lube that had become a thick nasty paste that was impeding the movement of the lock, especially when cold. The other three didn't have that issue, so I did not take those apart. HTH.

This will be my next step. Thanks
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Greg Smith Power door locks writeup PRE-1991 XJEEPER OEM Tech Discussion 234 July 7th, 2022 04:51
Greg Smith Power Door lock writeup XJEEPER Modified Tech Discussion 8 January 12th, 2013 17:16
Power door lock fix for pre-91 XJs MT Mike Frequently Asked Questions and Writeups 0 January 31st, 2009 18:57
power 4 dr. lock kit... on a 2 door... where to put the 4th door lock? selarep Modified Tech Discussion 2 April 22nd, 2007 20:52
Greg Smith kellen OEM Tech Discussion 3 September 13th, 2004 05:17


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
NAXJA and NAXJA logo's Copyright NAXJA. All content/images Copyright NAXJA 1999-2014