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"84 Cherokee won't fire

Krapola

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Fairfield, Ca
Hello all,

I am new this this form since I just purchased a "84 Cherokee with V6, 2.8L engine. I am having issues with this engine that I cannot resolve. I did a search and found 1 thread but it didn't help much....Here is the story..

While driving this vehical home Friday night, the engine started to run very rough..Just to satisify myself, I went and replaced the plugs, wires, cap, rotor, air filter, fuel filter and PCV. Pulled the AC pump(previous owner said it was frozen and did not work) and put it asside. After installing the new parts, the engine won't start, won't even fire...I checked, rechecked and rechecked again for Spark(got it at all plugs), Compression(160 reading on 1-5 cylinders, 6 at 120), Fuel dump into Carb is occuring, Timing is maybe 2 degrees out of spec(can't believe it won't even fire this close). I am basically stumped as to why this has happened..Does anyone have any simular experience with this issue? Any ideas?

Thanks
Michael
 
Is the carb sending fuel to the engine? If you remove the air cleaner and work the throttle by hand, the accelerator pump should give you a good, visible squirt.

Have you tried starting it by pouring a SMALL amount of gasoline into the carb, then cranking it? (NOTE: Pour first, then crank. Do not crank while pouring because if it backfires, you will become a toasted weiner in short order.)

You're certain the timing is correct and the wires are back on in the correct order? If you have fuel, air and spark it should go. With all the things you changed, the usual problem is that the wires get messed up and aren't going to the correct cylinders in the correct order.
 
Eagle said:
Is the carb sending fuel to the engine? If you remove the air cleaner and work the throttle by hand, the accelerator pump should give you a good, visible squirt.

Have you tried starting it by pouring a SMALL amount of gasoline into the carb, then cranking it? (NOTE: Pour first, then crank. Do not crank while pouring because if it backfires, you will become a toasted weiner in short order.)

You're certain the timing is correct and the wires are back on in the correct order? If you have fuel, air and spark it should go. With all the things you changed, the usual problem is that the wires get messed up and aren't going to the correct cylinders in the correct order.

Yes fuel is reaching the carb as indicated above...Yes I added Choke/Carb fluid to the intake, no go...I squited into each cylinder and replaced the spark plug, no go....Timing is straight forward, left side is 2,4,6...right side is 1,3,5...unless the Haynes manual is wrong when it indicates the #1 position on the Cap rotates clockwise from that point on, then I have no idea of the firing order..
 
Firing order is usually cast into the intake manifold.

But have you checked to see if the other plugs are firing ? Your symptoms sound a lot like a failing ignition module to me ...

Bill
 
Krapola said:
Timing is straight forward, left side is 2,4,6...right side is 1,3,5...
That isn't timing ... that's firing order. You need to turn the engine by hand until #1 piston is at top dead center (TDC) on the compression stroke (don't forget, the engine goes around two revolutions while the distributor goes around once), then make certain that the distributor rotor is pointing at the turret for the #1 spark plug wire.

I'm about ready to bet that you have it set up 180 degrees out of time, with #1 trying to fire when it comes up on the exhaust stroke.
 
wish said:
Firing order is usually cast into the intake manifold.

But have you checked to see if the other plugs are firing ? Your symptoms sound a lot like a failing ignition module to me ...


Bill

In a last ditch effort to confirm what I have, I layed out all 6 wires connected to the plugs, has my son crank the engine and monitored all 6 plugs fire in sequence...1-2-3-4-5-6....

Michael
 
Eagle said:
That isn't timing ... that's firing order. You need to turn the engine by hand until #1 piston is at top dead center (TDC) on the compression stroke (don't forget, the engine goes around two revolutions while the distributor goes around once), then make certain that the distributor rotor is pointing at the turret for the #1 spark plug wire.

I'm about ready to bet that you have it set up 180 degrees out of time, with #1 trying to fire when it comes up on the exhaust stroke.

Maybe I do have the firing order wrong..It is possible since I have found that this exact Haynes Manual was completely incorrect in describing the number of “links” on a Timing Chain for the In-line 6 Engine(what a friggin waist of time that was)….Here is what my Manual says:

Left side of engine-2,4,6
Right side of engine-1,3,5
Number 1 plug marking on Cap to rotate in Clockwise direction…
Hence 1-2-3-4-5-6(firing order)

If the Timing is out 180 degrees, how did I even drive this vehical home? I absolutely did not crank the engine after removing the old Cap and rotor and replaced it exactly as the old one....

Also tested TPS, grounding and confirmed Vacuum hose connections last evening..

Thanks
Michael
 
Looking at my manual it agrees that the firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6 going clockwise from the number one marking on the distributor.

I've seen about all of these common issues:

1) you started with the wrong terminal (just misread the cap)

2) the left and right terms are getting confused when you stand in front of the hood and are hooking up the wrong cylinders (1 is usually cast into the manifold as well if nto all of the cylinders to help you out)

3) whoever worked on the engine last put the distributor in wrong and just "fixed" it by using a different terminal as the number one cylinder.

Another possibility is going the wrong way around the distributor (easy to forget when you're looking at it from a different angle/starting and stopping at different points)

Also what did you gap the plugs to ? I haven't really seen that addressed, and it seems to be firing on your timing light so this shouldn't be the problem, but you never know.

The fact that it was running is a good sign that it should run again, so keep after it.

Bill
 
Wish, my replys below

1) you started with the wrong terminal (just misread the cap)
…Possible..The cap has a #1 printed on it and correlates to the terminal illustrated in the book to be directly before the mounting screw…Maybe the cap is stamped wrong…maybe..The cap can only go on one way though…won’t fit backwards since it is designed to sit down in a discernable manner

2) the left and right terms are getting confused when you stand in front of the hood and are hooking up the wrong cylinders (1 is usually cast into the manifold as well if nto all of the cylinders to help you out)
….Unless the book is wrong by indicating that the Rt front cylinder is #1 and in-fact it is #2…all pictures of cylinder placement was compared to the Factory operators manual with my Haynes and matches…

3) whoever worked on the engine last put the distributor in wrong and just "fixed" it by using a different terminal as the number one cylinder.
…I took any previous configurations as garbage since the person I purchased the Vehical from said he just overhauled it but all spark plugs were loose, vaccum hoses were barley hanging, non-standard factory bolts were utilized for re-assemble..he didn’t know what the hell he was doing basically…..So I followed the Haynes Manual to the T……

Another possibility is going the wrong way around the distributor (easy to forget when you're looking at it from a different angle/starting and stopping at different points)
…I do not understand this question….clockwise is only one way..even in Australia..hehehe

Also what did you gap the plugs to ? I haven't really seen that addressed, and it seems to be firing on your timing light so this shouldn't be the problem, but you never know.
…Hanyes says .35…Plugs from box are .35…Autozone moron says .45…Old plugs were ranging from .50 on up…I followed Haynes info…regardless, I should have at least 1 explosion per revolution…..

The fact that it was running is a good sign that it should run again, so keep after it.
…this is why I am stumped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Just a thought maybe the distributor got moved out of adjustment when replacing the cap and rotor. I know I have done this before so I know it can happen. I would do 1 of 2 things either pull the distributor out and turn the motor by hand until #1 cylinder is at top dead center then reinstall the distributor so that the rotor is pointing at the #1 cylinder spot on the cap then try to fire. Or you can loosen the distrbutor have someone inside start cranking the engine over and slowly move the distributor until it fires I have used this method on my FSJ Cherokee with a 360 . once it fires put your timing light on it and adjust the timing to factory specs. (Just double and triple check to make sure your wires are on correctly). Good Luck!
 
Don't you just love that boat anchor a got there? Plan on a future upgrade to a Firebird 3.4 and save yourself a bunch of grief. Anyways from my cheat notes from my 2.8, IF you have the wires on correctly and IF it distributor is in correctly, the #1 terminal on the cap should be towards the front of the engine on the pass. side. (edited this as I had misread my notes.) Had a problem where mine wouldn't start after a tranny place replaced my flex plate (for the first time), truck wouldn't start when I went to get it. I somehow, and don't remember how, got it to limp home. After checking everything there was to check I finally figured that they had somehow messed up the distributor. Got one from the yard, replaced the bad one and it ran, much better than before. If you're correct that this guy didn't know what he was doing he may have got it running a tooth or two off like mine was and now that you've put things right, it won't run. Save some hassle, pull the #1 plug and get it up to TDC and make sure the distributors there too. During one of my cooling off periods while troubleshooting the no start, I found a site on 2.8's that said that these motors are very picky about the distributor and cam being in time together, no cheating by moving the wires over. Those terminals, though they may look it, are NOT 60*'s away from each other. Either these motors are great and they run forever or they are junk and nothing but constant problems. Rear main is famous for poor oiling and what happens is the bearing wears allowing the rear of the crank to flex enough to take out the seal and destroy the flex plate. Just thought you'd like to know. . .

Here's what it should look like from the top.
http://members.shaw.ca/betterthanyoutoo/ignition2.8l.gif
 
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Krapola said:
2) the left and right terms are getting confused when you stand in front of the hood and are hooking up the wrong cylinders (1 is usually cast into the manifold as well if nto all of the cylinders to help you out)
….Unless the book is wrong by indicating that the Rt front cylinder is #1 and in-fact it is #2…all pictures of cylinder placement was compared to the Factory operators manual with my Haynes and matches…

Remember left and right are always from the driver's seat, so the #1 here should be the one nearest the front on the driver's side (if you're dealing with an Aussie Jeep that's right hand drive)


3) whoever worked on the engine last put the distributor in wrong and just "fixed" it by using a different terminal as the number one cylinder.
…I took any previous configurations as garbage since the person I purchased the Vehical from said he just overhauled it but all spark plugs were loose, vaccum hoses were barley hanging, non-standard factory bolts were utilized for re-assemble..he didn’t know what the hell he was doing basically…..So I followed the Haynes Manual to the T……

As someone else just said (got interrupted by going to pick up my wife in our stalled 84 XJ (see post about pulley alignment). It's possible the guy put it in wrong and used a different post as #1 on his firing sequence.

Another possibility is going the wrong way around the distributor (easy to forget when you're looking at it from a different angle/starting and stopping at different points)
…I do not understand this question….clockwise is only one way..even in Australia..hehehe

One would think. Like I said, I've seen/done all these before ;)

Bill
 
BigDadys94xj said:
Just a thought maybe the distributor got moved out of adjustment when replacing the cap and rotor. I know I have done this before so I know it can happen. I would do 1 of 2 things either pull the distributor out and turn the motor by hand until #1 cylinder is at top dead center then reinstall the distributor so that the rotor is pointing at the #1 cylinder spot on the cap then try to fire. Or you can loosen the distrbutor have someone inside start cranking the engine over and slowly move the distributor until it fires I have used this method on my FSJ Cherokee with a 360 . once it fires put your timing light on it and adjust the timing to factory specs. (Just double and triple check to make sure your wires are on correctly). Good Luck!

Distributer is tight and never been moved by me..I will certainly re-check once again about TDC..I certaily agree with this issue as being Electrical
 
Grizzley said:
Don't you just love that boat anchor a got there? Plan on a future upgrade to a Firebird 3.4 and save yourself a bunch of grief. Anyways from my cheat notes from my 2.8, IF you have the wires on correctly and IF it distributor is in correctly, the #1 terminal on the cap should be towards the front of the engine on the pass. side. (edited this as I had misread my notes.) Had a problem where mine wouldn't start after a tranny place replaced my flex plate (for the first time), truck wouldn't start when I went to get it. I somehow, and don't remember how, got it to limp home. After checking everything there was to check I finally figured that they had somehow messed up the distributor. Got one from the yard, replaced the bad one and it ran, much better than before. If you're correct that this guy didn't know what he was doing he may have got it running a tooth or two off like mine was and now that you've put things right, it won't run. Save some hassle, pull the #1 plug and get it up to TDC and make sure the distributors there too. During one of my cooling off periods while troubleshooting the no start, I found a site on 2.8's that said that these motors are very picky about the distributor and cam being in time together, no cheating by moving the wires over. Those terminals, though they may look it, are NOT 60*'s away from each other. Either these motors are great and they run forever or they are junk and nothing but constant problems. Rear main is famous for poor oiling and what happens is the bearing wears allowing the rear of the crank to flex enough to take out the seal and destroy the flex plate. Just thought you'd like to know. . .

Here's what it should look like from the top.
http://members.shaw.ca/betterthanyoutoo/ignition2.8l.gif

Thanks for the reminder of the Rear Main....It has been leaking all over my Garage floor since it arrived...No big deal...One weekend of heavy drinkin and no more leaky.....I will re-check my Timing once again at TDC.....
 
Grizzley said:
Make sure the engine ground is good. If it was old you could have broken it and not know it. Just a thought. . .

Yes sir, been checked...see post #7

Re: "84 Cherokee won't fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle
That isn't timing ... that's firing order. You need to turn the engine by hand until #1 piston is at top dead center (TDC) on the compression stroke (don't forget, the engine goes around two revolutions while the distributor goes around once), then make certain that the distributor rotor is pointing at the turret for the #1 spark plug wire.

I'm about ready to bet that you have it set up 180 degrees out of time, with #1 trying to fire when it comes up on the exhaust stroke.



Maybe I do have the firing order wrong..It is possible since I have found that this exact Haynes Manual was completely incorrect in describing the number of “links” on a Timing Chain for the In-line 6 Engine(what a friggin waist of time that was)….Here is what my Manual says:

Left side of engine-2,4,6
Right side of engine-1,3,5
Number 1 plug marking on Cap to rotate in Clockwise direction…
Hence 1-2-3-4-5-6(firing order)

If the Timing is out 180 degrees, how did I even drive this vehical home? I absolutely did not crank the engine after removing the old Cap and rotor and replaced it exactly as the old one....

Also tested TPS, grounding and confirmed Vacuum hose connections last evening..

Thanks
Michael
 
Krapola said:
Maybe I do have the firing order wrong..It is possible since I have found that this exact Haynes Manual was completely incorrect in describing the number of “links” on a Timing Chain for the In-line 6 Engine(what a friggin waist of time that was)….Here is what my Manual says:

Mike, you don't have an inline 6 engine, that's why the inline 6 links don't count out correctly. You have a V6, 2.8, Chevy.
 
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Grizzley said:
Mike, you don't have an inline 6 engine, that's why the inline 6 links don't count out correctly. You have a V6, 2.8, Chevy.

UH, I am quite aware of that...my intent of that statement was to highlight that the very last Jeep Grand Cherokee I have worked on(pulled Engine, Tranny for some major mechanical work) need reference to this EXACT Haynes Manual which was deemed to have inaccurate information published by Haynes/Chilton Consumer use Manuals....My point was that even thought this publishing group has produced documented material suitable for consumer usage, they can sometimes be wrong....And most certaily was....I do not think it is directly related to only 1 printed manual, but is most likely a number of misprinted packaged manuals so maybe if someone else here is in the process of installing a Timing chain in an In-line 6 and becomes confused about the direction given in the Haynes Manual, go with what you might or should know about Timing because the information is wrong in this paticular instance...

Michael
 
Krapola said:
UH, I am quite aware of that...my intent of that statement was to highlight that the very last Jeep Grand Cherokee I have worked on(pulled Engine, Tranny for some major mechanical work) need reference to this EXACT Haynes Manual which was deemed to have inaccurate information published by Haynes/Chilton Consumer use Manuals....My point was that even thought this publishing group has produced documented material suitable for consumer usage, they can sometimes be wrong....And most certaily was....I do not think it is directly related to only 1 printed manual, but is most likely a number of misprinted packaged manuals so maybe if someone else here is in the process of installing a Timing chain in an In-line 6 and becomes confused about the direction given in the Haynes Manual, go with what you might or should know about Timing because the information is wrong in this paticular instance...

Michael

Alright, it just sounded like MAYBE you might have had things crossed up a little. My bad, excuse me, sorry. . .
 
Grizzley said:
Alright, it just sounded like MAYBE you might have had things crossed up a little. My bad, excuse me, sorry. . .

I most certainly wish things were crossed up, it would have been an easy problem to fix...I am completely out of ideas as to what the hell could be causing this eingne not to fire...I have met the basic requirements of a combustion engine..

1--Fuel
2--Compression
3--Spark
4--Timing

It's got a damb Carb....Can't be that hard for at least a single pop in the chanmber...One weird thing though(maybe only weird to me), while cranking this engine, fuel blows out the top of the carb...WTF???

Well, whatever the problem is, I know it is going to be f-ing stupid...

PS: Grizzley, didn't mean to piss ya off....Im a bit frustrated answering the same quesitons over and over...
 
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