NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association  

Go Back   NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association > NAXJA Unibody Jeep Technical Forums > Jeep Cherokee XJ (1984 - 2001) > OEM Tech Discussion
HOME Member FAQ Sponsor Info Rules Bylaws E-Mail

OEM Tech Discussion Forum for OEM (Original Equipment) or stock XJs and MJs.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old March 29th, 2005, 13:45
Zoro Zoro is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 987
Painting

This summer it looks like I'll be painting my Jeep & I'd like to cut down on the costs and do this myself so I've got a couple of questions:

1)Do you sand the OEM Paint off down to the primer or metal?
2)If down to the primer is the OEM primer still reusable?
3)How do you remove the trim strip? Is it reusable? If so how the heck do you get it back on?
4)I want to seal my quarters with spray-on-bedliner, what's the best stuff to use that won't murder your wallet?
5)Who sells decently priced auto paint?
6)On the fiberglas tailgate, how far do you sand down and is there any special method as to painting it?

Thanks
~Zoro~
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old March 29th, 2005, 14:14
RippleXJ's Avatar
RippleXJ RippleXJ is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bountiful, UT
Posts: 4
Re: Painting

As far as the spray on bedliner, you might want to consider HERCULINER. I think you can spray it on, but I just did mine with a paint brush for the 1st coat then the included roller for the 2nd coat. It looks as good as the spray on in my opinion, and it only cost me like $60 for the kit.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old March 29th, 2005, 14:53
gw204 gw204 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: St. Leonard, MD
Posts: 269
Re: Painting

I would sand it down far enough to get past the sh*tty clear coat that always flakes off. Unless you have rust you need to address, don't take it down to bare metal. Prime right on top of the sanded original paint. Do you final sanding with 220 grit.

If you're looking to do it cheap, then grab a bunch of rattle cans from Dupli-Color.

That's about all I can help you with.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old March 29th, 2005, 14:53
bustednutz bustednutz is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 314
Re: Painting

Painting is a little more complex then just sanding and spraying.
You do not have to sand down to bare metal. But you do need to do a "scuffing" of the paint. Use a 320 grit paper to do this. This will rough up the surface enough for the paint to stick to.
Then there are paint types as well. You cannot spray an acrylic enamel over a standard enamel. It will wrinkle and not stick. But you can enamel over acrylic enamel. Most acrylic enamels are base coat/clear coat. And most standard enamels are simply base coat that dries to a very high gloss. This is what places like Maaco use for their cheap paint job. The cost of paint varies as well.
If you use a basecoat/clearcoat, be ready to wetsand it and buff it to a high gloss finish. Enamel its not necessary. But looks better (less orangepeel).
I could go on forever, but you should really go to amazon.com or your local Barnes and Noble or any other bookstore and get a book on autobody repair/refinishing. They are loaded with info about achieving a good paint job for the do it yourselfer.
Shows like American Hotrod and Overhaulin' make it look really easy. ITS NOT! But it is possible with taking your time and being patient.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old March 29th, 2005, 15:13
jdougn's Avatar
jdougn jdougn is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Charlestown IN/Louisville KY area
Posts: 765
Re: Painting

Quote:
Originally Posted by bustednutz
...Then there are paint types as well. You cannot spray an acrylic enamel over a standard enamel. It will wrinkle and not stick. But you can enamel over acrylic enamel. Most acrylic enamels are base coat/clear coat. And most standard enamels are simply base coat that dries to a very high gloss...
What paint do the XJs have?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old March 29th, 2005, 15:18
bustednutz bustednutz is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 314
Re: Painting

Basecoat/clearcoat acrylic enamel are the most common on all vehicles since the 80's. Any auto body supply shop would know as well. I am sure you have one in your town.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old March 29th, 2005, 15:39
eric91xj eric91xj is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 339
Re: Painting

there is no need to sand down to the factory primer for the paint to adhere, if you do that without re-priming and blocking the whole car then chances are your car is gonna look horrible and very very very wavy. if your not fixing any dings or dents or anything and just want to paint your jeep you just have to scuff the clear coat using a grey scotchbrite pad, if you use a red one and just paint over it the scratches will show through. Grey pad is about equal to 500 grit sandpaper, the red pads are about equal to 320 grit sand paper. you cannot base over anything less than 500 grit paper without the sand scratches showing through unless your spray a coat of sealer down first which is not need unless you have any bare metal spot that broke through after sanding your primer down. take your time it is alot harder and more time consuming than people realize. there are no cutting corners in the world of paint without your job looking like sh*t.

eric
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old March 29th, 2005, 15:57
steveC steveC is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 99
Re: Painting

If you just want some fresh paint, scuffing the old paint off is fine. Do take all of the cheap factory clearcoat off, though, if it hasn't started checking and peeling yet, it will as soon as the new paint starts to dry. Getting through the clearcoat layer just to the basecoat will be obvious after you've sanded a panel or two.

If you want to do a job that's going to last a long time, and you're trying to save on labor, remember that surface prep is 90% of the game. Sand it down to the electroplate primer from the factory (it's usually black or very dark gray, and is always the bottom layer) , but no more than that. Then:

(1) Do any body work (parking lot rash, etc.) needed. Take your time with this.
(2) On metal, conversion coat any places that the sander might have scratched through to the metal.
(3) Epoxy prime. Do not skimp here. Etch primers are cheaper/easier, but have much less chip and rust resistance.
(4) Fill prime using the two-color method, and block sand.
(5) Base color. If clearcoat, just enough to cover, not much more.
(6) Clearcoat (if chosen).

If you're just shooting for cost, stick with an acrylic enamel. If (when you make some mistakes, they can be corrected without too much swearing. Lacquers are cheap, forgiving, look great, and are easy to repair, but durability is useless for any daily driver. Nice for show cars only.

If you really want better durability, a urethane topcoat can't be beat, but it's (a) expensive, (b) unforgiving; if you make a mistake, you may have to re-do the whole panel, and (c) it requires a full pressure breathing rig, because the isocynate vapors can cause some really nasty reactions in your lungs. Best to rent some time in a spraybooth if you want this.

Let's see, what else?

* Try not to mix paint brands/processes, stick with one process if you can. I had a horrible time with Imron over a Sherwin primer on something I did recently, and now it needs redone in 2 spots. It was a complex fiberglass shape in 3 colors, took me two weeks prep, and then it ran because of adhesion problems (I panicked and overdid it). I'm still ticked at myself...

* If you take the fiberglass tailgate down to the glass for whatever reason, definitlely take your time finding pinholes in the resin with Featherfill. They sometimes don't show up until the paint cures several days later. Also, use a primer with a UV blocker on there, because UV will destroy the resin over time.

* Get some books, like bustednutz mentioned. Start with your local library.

* If this is your first time with a paint gun, practice on a junk panel or steel sheet before you shoot your real rig. The guys that shoot paint everyday have a touch and an eye that only comes with lots of practice.

* Paint brands: easiest for you to find will be PPG, DuPont, Sherwin-Williams, and BASF. Go to their websites and read the PDF instruction sheets for each process. Cost is competitive for all (always too much), what you should get will depend more on what your local paint shop has available. A couple of decent, affordable acrylics are DuPont's "Centari", or Sherwin's "Western". The more expensive paints will last better.

* Did I say practice?

It's hard, nasty, expensive work, and will take way longer to do than you expect, but the results are always fun to admire, and the feeling is great.

Sorry this got a little long. I love to paint, unless I'm actually in the process of painting...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old March 29th, 2005, 16:43
Zoro Zoro is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 987
Re: Painting

Thanks for all the helpful tips guys, I've painted quite a few model cars with an airbrush so I didn't think it would be that hard to paint a real car. After reading what ya'll have had to say I think I'm going to let somebody like Maaco paint my Jeep which brings me to another question, if I'm having Maaco paint my Jeep what should I do to prep it so that the paintjob will come out looking the best?

Where do you buy the Herculiner kits and how much area do they cover? On the lower parts of my rear quarters the paint has come off and there's now surface rust on the metal but not thru yet, so in this case I'd need to go down to the metal, right?

Thanks
~Zoro~
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old March 29th, 2005, 16:57
steveC steveC is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 99
Re: Painting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
On the lower parts of my rear quarters the paint has come off and there's now surface rust on the metal but not thru yet, so in this case I'd need to go down to the metal,
~Zoro~
Yes, and be aggressive, get all the pits out. In a rust-prone area, use an epoxy primer on this.

Doing the prep (through primer) yourself and taking it to a shop for the color coat isn't a bad idea if you're nervous about the work. Take a few weeks to patch and prime, no reason you can't drive it while your prepping as long as you don't mind gray spots for a time.

Personally, I'd stick with a neighborhood shop instead of a national chain though, you can be more selective with the paint process, and they're more likely to work with you. The big chains prefer doing volume work with a fixed process; they balk at more custom work. I suspect you'll usually find more talented shooters at the private shops, the chain shops will often go the cheapest route to make their numbers look good.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old March 29th, 2005, 17:37
HOOP HOOP is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: WEST by GOD VIRGINIA
Posts: 23
Re: Painting

Zoro,lot of good advice your getting,but the best advice I could give is stay away from maaco,and such chains,find a few shops in the area and see if anyone is doing any work on the side,9 out 0f 10 times theres always a bodyman wanting to make a little cash on the side ,if you you weren't so far I'd be willing to hook ya up,again don't go with a chain cause you any gonna get much,believe me I got 21 yrs under my belt spraying the nasty stuff .good luck to ya,just a idea but check out a night class at a votech center,usally theyll let ya do your own vehicles as long as you supply the material,and you'll have a experieced person there to guide you through it.just my 2 cents.

HOOP
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old March 29th, 2005, 18:23
bustednutz bustednutz is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 314
Re: Painting

AND if you still want to go to a chain shop, Like Maaco, make sure your rig is very clean and free of all wax, and armor all type dressings.
Take it to a self service pressure washer car wash. Get in those fender wells and all the door jambs, under the hood and underneath the car. Blast the hell out of all the grime and hidden dust and dirt that may arise in a paint booth. Don't forget to blast off the insides of the bumpers. The rear is a huge sand trap. Spend some money at one of those places first.
And practice up on your color sanding technique. Maaco usually lays it on thick, and runs can happen.
One more thing, remove all trim and anything else that you do not want overspray on.
I had a couple cars done at Maaco here locally in the past. I prepped it myself and removed just about everything in their parking lot. Headlights, tail lights, grille, mirrors, body trim etc... If it could come off, it did. And those guys didn't mind at all, alot less for them to mask off.
After all the prep work I did myself, the paint job came out pretty good. I had to spend about 40 hours color sanding it after a couple weeks of curing. But I used to own a detail shop for years and liked doing that stuff.
Looked great after a few hundred sheets of 1500 and 2000 grit wet/dry paper, and some buffing.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old March 29th, 2005, 19:02
HOOP HOOP is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: WEST by GOD VIRGINIA
Posts: 23
Re: Painting

sorry to sat bustednutz but if it took a 100 or so sheets of paper and 40 hrs of colorsanding i think someone had a problem with application and way to much filmbuild

HOOP
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old March 30th, 2005, 15:29
bustednutz bustednutz is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 314
Re: Painting

Its the perfectionist in me. Thats all.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Painting the plastic & dyeing the leather. scoobyxj Tow Rigs and Trailers 9 March 9th, 2005 22:35
Painting under Jeep? Hiaboo OEM Tech Discussion 2 April 8th, 2004 09:54
Painting Axles... Patriot Modified Tech Discussion 17 December 28th, 2003 19:57
Mask for painting flames? ZmOz Modified Tech Discussion 18 October 8th, 2003 13:54
Painting the trim STLXJ94 OEM Tech Discussion 3 May 13th, 2003 17:57


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
NAXJA and NAXJA logo's Copyright NAXJA. All content/images Copyright NAXJA 1999-2014