Beezil and other long arm mounters :)

Hey Beezil and others that have made their own long arm mounts, I am wanting to see pics of the inside of the frame rails where you built reinforcements for the frame/long arm mounts. I poured over Beezils pics as that is pretty much how I have proceeded so far, but cannot tell how he did the inside of the frame rails in the front portion where the inside of the uniframe has a lip extending in. I used 4x6x1/4 box tubing ripped into two U-channels 3x4 to cover the rear portion of the frame and the front outer portion, but am undecided about how to finish the inner front portion. I think some folks simply extend a flat plate along the bottom of the frame rail and don't bring it back up along the inside of the frame rail. Rusty's pics show that is what he did for his long arm kit, but also added a piece of flat stock on the inside of the frame above the seam for a backer for some through the frame bolts. I don't know if he is using any sleeves in the frame. Doesn't look like it. I might do this also, but am just wondering what others have done or would do. BTW, I did use some sleeves and through the frame bolts on the rear portion of my frame reinforcement. Thanks, Jeff

FWIW Rusty's does use a sleeve through the frame attached at the inner reinforcment plate.

I put 1/4" angle on the outsided, and 1/4" flat stock on the inside. I also sleeved it.

I just used 5/16" angle iron over the bottom and the outside of the frame rail. It has held up really well. No sign of stress or cracks in the welds. I was going to use 1/4" but all they had was 5/16" so why not?

Here's a link to pics of what I've done so far.

http://photomail.photoworks.com/sha...hNadb7Jxv6Z/ScEGHh1IHE/sno4Z.p8P1spl.Y2Q6FqC7

Jeff- Looks nice. Are you "framing" the entire rail? I had to do it in 3 steps to accomodate for the stock bend near the crossmember.
-Jon

jeff!

nice!


I hope you take this the way I'm meanin' it.....

you definitly don't need my help!

looks like you know EXACTLY what you are doing....

if you are in doubt, don't force yourself to finish, sit on it a few days and see what pops in your head......if that doesn't work, I suggest a weekend of heavy drug use, and maybe you'll have a "vision".

who knows, couldn't hurt might help?

jk

more pics!

Gee Beez, your a lot of help! Thanks for the compliments, but I wanted to know what YOU did! I think I have a plan and will proceed, but I am supposed to drive this thing to Colorado for a week of wheeling in a week and a half! Got a LOAD of work yet to do and this frame thing is only part of it.

Jon, I am running this frame reinforcement from just behind the stock front lower control arm mount to where the frame bends up for the wheel well. I cut the sides and bent the U to accomodate the frame rail height change. I welded it back up and it fits pretty good.

As for the rear spring, I am going to try a set of Dodge 1500 leaves as they were cheap, long, had a fair amount of arch, seemed like they would flex ok, had a thicker main leaf than the xj stuff (so it wouldn't bend with spring wrap as easily) and seemed like I could make them work. I did turn them around and then shift the axle 1" forward from the spring center bolt. Test fitting of them showed that they didn't provide as much lift as I had imagined and that they needed the overload leaf to support the flat middle part of the spring. I added a 2" block (along with a 6" eye to eye shackle) and got the height pretty close to where I want it. I plan to add a double shear mount to the side of the frame and then run the mounting bolt all the way through the double shear, the spring bushing and the sleeve in the frame. I will probably also run a piece across the front of the double shear to the rock rail eventually.

So what exactly did YOU do with the front part of your frame reinforcement Beezil? Jeff

you've seen all the pics on my space?

i think I have a few more, basically, you wanna see the main arm mount where it ties to the uniframe, right?

is there anything else that might be of specific interest?

I'll try to find pics.

I'm looking to find pics or descriptions of what you did on the inside of the frame rail towards the front where there is a pinch seam pointing to the center of the Jeep. The pics on your sight show that you did cover at least part of the outside of this frame area, but no pics as to what you did on the inside of the frame (not inside the uniframe, but the inner side of the uniframe compared to the outer side. )

BTW, the portion I am asking about also tapers towards the center of the Jeep probably about an inch over it's length up to the factory lower control arm mount. So if one installs sleeves through the frame perpendicular to the outer frame rail, the inner end of the sleeve will not come out perpendicular to the inner frame rail. What did you all do to deal with this?

Finally, the sleeves that I have installed so far sandwich the outer frame rail and weld to the inner frame rail pretty much flush with it. The U-channel then slips up and over the sleeves and bolts pass through the outer U channel rail, the outer frame rail, the sleeve, and the inner U channel rail.

Jeff

whatever you see on the outside of the frame rail is EXACTLY what you see on the inside. My rail brackets are symetrical.

I know what seam you are talking about, my braqckets begin right behind this area.....i kinda avoided it completely.

btw, i didn't use sleeves.....

i got the jeep for free, had to start and finish the project in six months (took delivery of the stock POS march15th 2002 and finished before moab2002)......

what I'm trying to say is, there are some areas that I really didn't give a shit......

those LCA brackets are a prime example of not giving a shit.

therefore, I cannot comment on sleeves, other than to tell you, its a good thing you are planning to do it the RIGHT way.

What a hack!!

Actually mine aren't sleeved either. I first just through bolted the frame, but found the frame rail started to crush. I now am using nutserts on the outside frame which seem to be holding up great. I have no retaining plates on the inside.

Matt

Thanks guys for the inf. Oh, Beez, you must have done something on your frame piece to deal with the inner seam as it starts about 2" in front of where the level change in the frame occurs and your pieces extend a good foot forward from the level change. I suspect you just ran the steel along the outer side and the under side in this area. The bolts going through the frame in this area must just have washers on the inside unless you made a backing plate. I ended up adding a longer sleeve just past where the seam starts and then pushing the inner part of my U-channel in an inch or so. I was going to add another sleeve towards the front of my piece, but couldn't get a drill in from the inside to do the sleeve thing, so I just skipped it. In addition to the just mentioned sleeve in this area, I will have three bolts into stock inserts where the stock crossmember mounts. I might add a final self tapping bolt to the outside front of the frame reinforcement, but I'm sure with the other fasteners I incorportated it won't be going anywhere! I'm not even doing a long arm or mid arm at this point. I just wanted to strengthen the frame in the front and redo the front leaf spring mount. I'll have to post some more pics, but the camera is at work so not for a day or so. Jeff

hmmmmmm.

I'll have to make it a point to look.

Its been a while since I've even seen my jeep besides....

I added a few more pics to the album linked to above showing one of my rails and how I handled the front part where the frame has a 1" seam to the inside. I will have one "through the frame" sleeve just above the existing cross member mounting holes and was going to have one more near the front of my rail, but can't get a drill into the inside of the frame rail there, so screw it! Oh, I also have three sleeves in the back and two more for long bolts to pass through the spring eye AND the frame (stock location and Dodge 1500 spring location.) Also, there will be another chunk of steel off the side of this rail to act as a double shear for the front leaf spring mount. Jeff

Q for Matt and Beezil

What size nutserts did you guys use??

I've been trying to find some nice sized ones to do the same as what Matt has done to no avail. It would seem that I'd need a grip thickness of at least .370" which only seems to come in 1/2" sized nutserts. I'm having trouble finding that size. What size did you guys use???

Wow, where are you trying to put the nutsert that the metal is nearly 3/8" thick? The sheet metal frame rail seems to be only maybe 16 gage or less. The nutserts I'm using are for 3/8" course thread bolts. The nutsert itself requires a 1/2" hole drilled into the rail.

Ahhh.....

I see what you are doing now. You put the nutsert in the framerails THEN mounted the reinforcing plating. I was going to try and mount the plating and put the nutsert in BOTH so it squished the plating to the frame rail.

So, with your setup the reinforcing steel isn't actually flush against the frame rail but rather only against the flange of the nutsert??

Yes, but the nutsert itself has very little "flange" to it. In fact after they are installed they sit damn near flush. The bolt head & flat washer extend past the small flange of the nutsert which brings the side plates in direct contact with the frame rail which still gives you the strength of being in shear. I've spot welded the side plates to the frame rail to watch for any movement of the cross member & everything is still rock solid. Doing it the way you're talking would make the side plates one with the frame rail & you wouldn't be able to remove them. At that rate you would be better off welding it on & making a drop out center similar to Claytons setup. In short no need for nutserts if it's not removable.

Matt

Matt