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Torque required to remove seized Cherokee front axle nuts?

lordoeuf

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Vancouver Island
Has anyone ever measured the torque required to remove these seized Cherokee front axle nuts? I've searched around various forums and people just talking about tightened torque and measuring torque with a breaker bar, but I haven't seen anyone measure the required torque on these really darn stuck axle nuts.

I have a 2' 1/2" breaker with an additional 1.5' for a cheater pipe, for lever arm of 3.5'. I figure with me jumping on the bar, that's probably 800+ ft-lbs. All it does is [eventually] break the breaker bar at the 1/2" drive connection. I've broken 2 now. I've heated the nut for 18 minutes with a propane torch and even tried that wacky candle wax trick, but no go. I hit it with an impact which is rated to remove nuts at 600 ft-lbs, but no go.

I've hammered the nut while spraying it with Liquid Wrench and other brands of penetrating oil, but nothing.

My question is not so much of what other ideas you might have, but how much torque is typically required in cases like this? 2000 ft-lbs? Has anyone measured it? Thanks.
 
I don't think the average XJ owner has anywhere near the required equipment to measure that torque. I know I don't, and I can't think of anyone who does. That would be one very expensive torque wrench which would get nowhere near enough use to justify its cost.

I was in your shoes with my XJ. After breaking the 1/2" bar I stepped my game up to a 3/4" drive breaker bar and 3/4" drive socket. The breaker bar itself is over 36" long (might be 48", I don't recall off the top of my head) and I added about 6' of pipe on top of that. That did the job.

I think the root cause of the situation goes back to that lack of expensive torque wrenches. Given that the average XJ owner can't measure the required torque to install the nut they just let it have it with the impact gun. And then give it a bit more just to be sure. And then maybe hit it again because they know they don't want the wheels to fall off. So figure that nut was installed with the max torque they could prossibly get out of their impact, and then add whatever grip a decade or so of rust can add to the equation.

Best of luck with the battle.
 
Damn, im planning on doing one of my wheel bearings today and I never knew they had a reputation for being stuck, kinda worried now. On the other hand my upper shock bolts came out like butter so maybe my luck will hold out!
 
You might try heating then quenching with liguid wrench. Repeat 4-5 times then try an impact. The expansion and contraction will often break the bond between the nut and the shaft.

I think it is likely a chemical bond, some form of oxidation and/or electrolysis or both.

It doesn't have to be red hot, even a heat gun can work. The parts can expand .005 with moderate heat and cooling. Heat then quench with freeze spray and the expansion and contraction is even more, the movement weakens or breaks the bond. The only way I loosen brake lines anymore. https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals...+ICE+COLD+AEROSOL+SPRAY&qid=1600963466&sr=8-1
 
No reason to measure the un-install torque.

If the axle shaft nuts are seized, consider the mileage on the unit hubs, and the cost/difficulty of removal, vs. new ( or good used ) hubs and stub shafts. I can get used axle shafts with unit hubs at the junkyard for $20 per side.

I would not apply any generous amounts of heat to good unit hubs.
 
I did as 8Mud suggested, and then mine came off with a corded Milwaukee impact.

I've heard of people having good luck with a torque multiplier in these kind of situations, but I've never used one myself.
 
Sorry, misread 8Muds post. I alternated heat with a torch and pb blaster (or something like it) a few times then got it off with the impact. I'd like to try that freeze spray tho.
 
I did as 8Mud suggested, and then mine came off with a corded Milwaukee impact.

I've heard of people having good luck with a torque multiplier in these kind of situations, but I've never used one myself.

Agreed. I bought a $40 Harbor Freight impact to remove one 13 years ago.

I'm still using that impact today. Was a good investment.
 
Make or buy one of these, great for the trail a 1/2" breaker bar and a hammer gets it done every time.
P1080495_zpsla6dhudd.jpg
 
I use a product called freeze off by crc for seized or rusted parts available at your local Napa auto parts. jobber.
 
I looked online for torque multipliers and they are in the thousands of dollars. Much cheaper to buy new axle shafts. I'm going to try a 1400 ft-lbs impact. Does anyone know if the pneumatic impacts at for profit garages do more than 1400 ft-lbs? I went to one shop yesturday and the owner had no idea.

Are we at risk of cracking or severely weakening the nut or axle shaft with this type of rapid heating and cooling method? Can I just turn the can of compressed air upside down for the freeze-can? And how long after one cycle of heating/freeze do you try to impact it off? Immediately?
 
KMS tools sells a 40" 3/4" breaker bar for $100 CAD and the 36 mm 3/4" drive socket for around $30. $130 for use once a year. Thus far, a 24" 1/2" breaker bar has been able to get everything else off. Probably cheaper than axle shafts, but it might not work still. KMS isn't Home Depot, so I'll likely be stuck with the bar/socket never to be used again.

I think the root cause of the situation goes back to that lack of expensive torque wrenches. Given that the average XJ owner can't measure the required torque to install the nut they just let it have it with the impact gun. And then give it a bit more just to be sure. And then maybe hit it again because they know they don't want the wheels to fall off. So figure that nut was installed with the max torque they could prossibly get out of their impact, and then add whatever grip a decade or so of rust can add to the equation.
I installed the hub bearings about 12 years ago and I didn't have my 2' breaker bar. I torqued them to the max my torque wrench could handle, which is 150 ft-lbs. Then I took a 18" ratchet and give it another 1/16 to 1/8 of a turn. So in my case, I don't think the nut is over torqued. Like another poster pointed out, probably some oxidtation reaction "glued" it on.

PCP Phx: What is that in the photo? Could you describe it some?
 
It's a piece of 3/4" with 2 sockets welded in. Here's another view.
P1080494_zpsrnidbkzq.jpg
 
I see, it gives you an additional lever arm, some what analogous to using multiple pullies. Doesn't look like a 36 mm socket though. That must be for your wheel lugs. Ideally we'd want the socket removable.
 
You guys think something like this $20 impact driver kit will bust loose the axle nut? Apparently it is some spring loaded cylinder that you wack with a hammer. The listings don't publish the max impulse torque delivered by a standard wack.

https://www.amazon.ca/TEKTON-2910-2...impact+driver&qid=1600990170&s=hi&sr=1-1&th=1

and

https://www.amazon.ca/Powerbuilt-64...ocphy=9001601&hvtargid=pla-457407782525&psc=1

These kits are more used on screw heads I had one I iused for for stuck screws on my motorcycle
 
Well, the guy at the autopart store swore by these for busting stuck bolts/nuts on vehicles, though he hadn't tried it on an axle nut. Anyone here try them with a stuck axle nut?

Here's a cheapish torque multiplier, Neiko Pro 03716B, but it's for a 3/4" drive. Can do 2200 ft-lbs for $320 CAD. Plus $100 for a 40" 3/4" breaker, plus $30 for a 3/4" 36 mm socket. That's $450. Same price as a battery operated Milwalkee high impact torque wrench w/batt.
 
You guys think something like this $20 impact driver kit will bust loose the axle nut?

Nope. They mostly suck for their intended purpose of screws.

If you're using a pneumatic air gun, they need LOTs of air to get that max rating. Think short big hose and lots of pressure. That 90 psi spec is at the gun while sucking hard on the hose, not the tank. Dialing up the regulator at the tank to 150 psi makes a world of difference. Also minimize any socket extensions as they start acting like torque sticks.

If all else fails get that 3/4" breaker bar wedged against the ground and drive forward.
 
Have you considered removing the axle and bearing assembly and take it to a shop and have them take the axle nut off?
 
Have you considered removing the axle and bearing assembly and take it to a shop and have them take the axle nut off?

I don't know how they would hold it? Worst case, drive it there and ask them to loosen and then torque to spec so you can re-remove them yourself at home.
 
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