full hydro steering

macgyvr · Aug 30, 2006

so an orbital valve out of a fork truck just landed in my garage the other day...

running d60 with three link and trackbar

39.5 krawlers

high steer arms on stock knuckles

welded front with hubs for now...

double or single ended ram?
-have looked at the 2x8 single ram at the tractor store...seems simple, cheap and available anywhere...
-thoughts on a double ended ram?

who's done what...dont have too much time to webwheel anymore, spend most of the time in the garage or at work...

i did a quick search and didn't turn up much for full hydro...but if someone with way to much time wants to look, point me towards some archives...

thanks

mac 'steering box doesn't like to stay attached' gyvr

GREEN XJ · Aug 31, 2006

Double ended has advantages, but is more expensive. It's more responsive wheel to wheel, but if just a trail rig go with single ended. I have a single ended but didn't do it the cheap way, but some of my friends have done it the cheap way(forklift valve, tractor ram) and it has worked well for them.

macgyvr · Aug 31, 2006

well i rrrrrrreeeeally want to keep it affordable...i like the idea of a $67 cylinder from the tractor store....

mac 'any others' gyvr

BrettM · Aug 31, 2006

i've heard good things for trail rig use, and it's only $67 if you don't like it. i'd be more concerned about the forklift valve.

seanR · Aug 31, 2006

Mac, get ahold of 'brianho',
He and I had a very good talk about hydro steering at CF.

Good to see you still around, don't be a stranger!

Fullsizexj · Aug 31, 2006

I run a single sided and it works great, plus it is easier to mount up out of harms way, a double ends up out front of everything

macgyvr · Sep 1, 2006

seanR said:
Mac, get ahold of 'brianho',
He and I had a very good talk about hydro steering at CF.

Good to see you still around, don't be a stranger!

been a stranger because i like to wrench more than listen to people b!tch on the internet...its nice to get a little technical help and i definately appreciate it...i get enough drama at work...

i will try to get ahold of him...unless he sees this thread, maybe he can chime in...

trying to get the 'popcan' going to make the 4xjambo in indy near the end of the month...

mac 'full hydro...locker next' gyvr

BRIANHO13 · Sep 1, 2006

First off I have only had my ram assist on for three runs, so by no means am I an expert.

I am looking to go full hydro myself if I can find the parts at a reasonable price. If it were me I would use an orbital valve and double ended ram. The reason I would go double ended is you would have equal pressure in both directions and equal volumes of fluid in each direction.

I have seen a couple rigs where forklifts have been robbed of their orbital valves and double ended rams, supposedly for under $300.

HTH

Fullsizexj · Sep 1, 2006

you have equal with a single sided also, fluid pushes in both directions trough the same size hoses with the same bore and stroke length, it is the valve that determins which way fluid flows, additionally you do not have the acreman angles problem to contend with either. do a little more research

BrettM · Sep 1, 2006

Fullsizexj said:
you have equal with a single sided also, fluid pushes in both directions trough the same size hoses with the same bore and stroke length, it is the valve that determins which way fluid flows, additionally you do not have the acreman angles problem to contend with either. do a little more research

not true. the bore may be the same size but the surface area of the rod side is smaller giving it less force and less fluid volume required to fill that side of the chamber.

BRIANHO13 · Sep 1, 2006

It may be the same bore and stroke length but your surface area is taken up by the size of the rod.

Say you have a 2" bore with a 1" rod, and 1000psi pressure. Your pushing force in one direction would be 3140 pounds . Your pushing force in the other would be 2355 pounds.

Also if your stroke is 8" your volume of fluid to go one direction would be 25.12in^3 the other direction would be 18.84in^3.

So that is why I think double ended would be better equal pressure and volume. Let me know if I need to put up schematics and the math for you.

BRIANHO13 · Sep 1, 2006

BrettM said:
not true. the bore may be the same size but the surface area of the rod side is smaller giving it less force and less fluid volume required to fill that side of the chamber.

You beat me to it, but I gave a little explanation.

Dirk Pitt · Sep 1, 2006

BRIANHO13 said:
It may be the same bore and stroke length but your surface area is taken up by the size of the rod.

Say you have a 2" bore with a 1" rod, and 1000psi pressure. Your pushing force in one direction would be 3140 pounds . Your pushing force in the other would be 2355 pounds.

Also if your stroke is 8" your volume of fluid to go one direction would be 25.12in^3 the other direction would be 18.84in^3.

So that is why I think double ended would be better equal pressure and volume. Let me know if I need to put up schematics and the math for you.

This is spot on correct...

Fluid cannot act on the area the shaft is occupying in a one ended cylinder.

Kaczman · Sep 1, 2006

Is the valve load sensing? If so I'd recommend using a balanced cylinder, and if not go with the cheap farm unit. Also, are you going to do any road driving? A non-sensing valve and single ended ram could be hard to handle.

Here's everything you need to know:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Hydro_Steering/index2.html

-Jon

Dirk Pitt · Sep 1, 2006

Fullsizexj said:
you have equal with a single sided also, fluid pushes in both directions trough the same size hoses with the same bore and stroke length, it is the valve that determins which way fluid flows, additionally you do not have the acreman angles problem to contend with either. do a little more research

I also think you could tune ackerman to your liking with either type of ram.

Fullsizexj · Sep 1, 2006

eitherway, the single sided will feel no different through the steering wheel than a double other than it takes 3 turns to full lock one way and 2 the other, in my experience you do not even notice it, after all who drives by counting how many times they have to turn their steering wheel to make a turn, only drawback which is no big deal to me is the steering wheel is always ending clocked in a different posistion. No matter which way you go, I would not want it in a street driven vehicle, it is way to fast reacting

Kaczman · Sep 1, 2006

What's the displacement of your valve? Mine's 7.3 cubic inches and feels very stable at speed. I've had it up to 85 mph and felt perfectly safe (I don't recommend or advise anyone to try this at home).

-Jon

Fullsizexj · Sep 2, 2006

not sure what it was anymore, Station set up the matching system for me based on the ram I am using

OT · Sep 2, 2006

Kaczman said:
Is the valve load sensing? If so I'd recommend using a balanced cylinder, and if not go with the cheap farm unit. Also, are you going to do any road driving? A non-sensing valve and single ended ram could be hard to handle.

Here's everything you need to know:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Hydro_Steering/index2.html

-Jon

That's a great article.
More people should take the time to read it.

Panthers65 · Sep 3, 2006

What pump are you going to be using for your assist, Did you buy an aftermarket high-flow pump or are you able to use your stock one

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