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One Locker....which axle??

I vote rear first, both locked is even better
 
ehall said:
Selectable up front first and leave the rear open--you need to pull more than you need to push.
Click to expand...


This is my logic also, and after my rear lunch box went out to lunch I wasn't concerned about putting it back to open. Has worked great, rocks, snow, ice.
 
Everyone has their own opinion... Personally I have a lunchbox up front and an 8.8 Ford lsd with restacked factory clutches. I wheel with a guy that's double locked and I'm wayyyyy more maneuverable than he is. I feel as though I have the maximum available traction (due to no scooting from bindng) until i lift a rear wheel of course.

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techno1154 said:
I have an ECTED in the rear for more than 150,000 miles. It have always worked as it was designed to work. however, I have only used 30 and 32 inch tires on my XJ. My Ected is the second generation. The first generation was a failure. Eaton also made one similar to the ECTED which was taken off the market in short order.

my first post was in response to all that bashing of electric lockers.
Click to expand...

I was one of the suckers who bought a first generation ECTED for the D-30. It worked great for about 5000 miles and was an aggressive limited-slip when it was turned off.
Then the clutches, and whatever else, wore out, it was finished. Eaton treated me poorly when attempting to either get it fixed or to buy the repair parts, they abandoned the first-gen buyers and left them hanging.
So, I installed a E-locker and that was almost a 100,000 trouble-free miles ago, it still works great. I make a effort to engage it gently not being too impressed with the size of its locking pins. So far, so good.
 
lazyxj said:
I was one of the suckers who bought a first generation ECTED for the D-30. It worked great for about 5000 miles and was an aggressive limited-slip when it was turned off.

Then the clutches, and whatever else, wore out, it was finished. Eaton treated me poorly when attempting to either get it fixed or to buy the repair parts, they abandoned the first-gen buyers and left them hanging.

So, I installed a E-locker and that was almost a 100,000 trouble-free miles ago, it still works great. I make a effort to engage it gently not being too impressed with the size of its locking pins. So far, so good.
Click to expand...



What brand locker is your current one?


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dktool said:
This is my logic also, and after my rear lunch box went out to lunch I wasn't concerned about putting it back to open. Has worked great, rocks, snow, ice.
Click to expand...

never understood this logic. when climbing something, there is much more weight on the rear tires. also the front will usually articulate more than the rear.

but glad to hear it's been working for you!
 
I go against the grain on this one. I locked the front first (but had an LSD in the rear) and man oh man! Tripled the trail worthiness of the rig immediately and I never knew it was there on the street. Ehhh, almost never. I sported an Aussie.

I finally locked the rear and never even knew it. Locking the front did sooooo much for my rig it was totally unbelievable.

So my vote is front.
 
denverd1 said:
never understood this logic. when climbing something, there is much more weight on the rear tires. also the front will usually articulate more than the rear.
Click to expand...


Possibly without intention you explained why this works, when climbing there IS more weight / traction on the rear with less likelihood of it loosing traction.
Even with the increased amount of articulation in the front it is more likely to unload and break traction and be required to drive the traction wheel 1 to 1 if / when the opposite wheel is starts sucking wind.


As you said "if it works for you" this is mostly what it's all about, personal feel for how ones pile functions with each persons individual driving style.
(I see from your signature you're a skinny pedal guy, I am the opposite.)
 
dktool said:
Possibly without intention you explained why this works, when climbing there IS more weight / traction on the rear with less likelihood of it loosing traction.
Even with the increased amount of articulation in the front it is more likely to unload and break traction and be required to drive the traction wheel 1 to 1 if / when the opposite wheel is starts sucking wind.
Click to expand...

In my experience, when climbing steep, loose uphills, the locking the front axle prevents the front wheels from hopping and breaking traction.
Axles can break when the wheels hop.
 
lazyxj said:
In my experience, when climbing steep, loose uphills, the locking the front axle prevents the front wheels from hopping and breaking traction.
Axles can break when the wheels hop.
Click to expand...

Isn't a steep, loose uphill by definition a low traction situation, and if the front axle hops there is very little traction to snap the axle ?

A front axle with locker scratching at the dirt on the crest of an obstacle has very little weight on the tires to put the extra traction to good use. If someone is only going to install one locker, it should be in the rear axle where all the weight has typically shifted towards. Going uphill, the traction potential has shifted to the rear.
 
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Lol...this thread is like asking “what’s the best brand of oil to use”.....🤣🤣🤣

One thing is clear, there no “one right” answer for everyone.

At this point my plan would be to do a selectable up front, LSD in the rear.

To that end, found a OX locker on CL yesterday for a Dana 30 (at least that’s what the sellers says). I tried low-balling him, he just laughed. He says it’s new, never used, but is a few years old. What would you all think is fair for an OX locker with no shifting mechanism (and no warranty)? I would never pay more than half what it’s worth new, and I’d be inclined to halve that again....but that’s the cheap ass in me.


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I've always done the front first. If I build another xj it will be selectable front and an 8.8 rear with lsd.

Call ox and price out the missing parts before buying. I personally tend to shy away from used drivetrain components anymore but that's just me been burned too much by crappy craigslist sellers.
 
BigNuge said:
Lol...this thread is like asking “what’s the best brand of oil to use”.....🤣🤣🤣

One thing is clear, there no “one right” answer for everyone.

At this point my plan would be to do a selectable up front, LSD in the rear.

To that end, found a OX locker on CL yesterday for a Dana 30 (at least that’s what the sellers says). I tried low-balling him, he just laughed. He says it’s new, never used, but is a few years old. What would you all think is fair for an OX locker with no shifting mechanism (and no warranty)? I would never pay more than half what it’s worth new, and I’d be inclined to halve that again....but that’s the cheap ass in me.


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Click to expand...

I wouldn't do an LSD. there may be better options these days, but the consensus a few years ago was that the clutches work properly for a few miles but quickly shit the bed. and most suppliers wouldn't warranty or even offer replacement parts.
YMMV.
I'd get an auto locker. no wires, air lines, cables. it works when you need and lets it act like an open diff when you don't.
spartan/lokka/aussie take your pick.
 
BigNuge;246675720 To that end said:
By "no shifting mechanism" do you mean no cover/shift fork? If it is missing the cover and integrated shift fork I would want to know the reason why and I would want to get a quote for those components from Ox.

OTOH, if you mean that it doesn't come with a shift lever & cable, or electric solenoid & cable, or air actuator, well, that is how they normally sell. You have to select the options that best suit your needs when you order an Ox locker, and they have their associated costs when you choose them.

If the locker is complete as sold (no missing cover) then half the cost of new would be a reasonable price for it. The cost for the shipping mechanism will be the same whether you buy a new locker or this one.

If the locker is incomplete (missing the cover) then I would deduct the cost of the cover (incl. shipping) from the half of the cost of the locker new. And that assumes there is a reasonable answer for the missing components. I would have my BS meter set to maximum sensitivity.

If you do pursue an Ox locker for the front be advised that you probably don't want to cable shift it. There are too many moving components up there and not enough room around them to keep a cable out of harms way. Nimrod tried this battle and wound up switching to an air actuator. I am in the process of building one with an electric actuator (still uses a cable, but doesn't have to make it into the passenger compartment). Time will tell how successful I am with the shorter cable. Air should be a safe bet. Also note that the Ox locker does not require the constant air supply of an ARB. You can run an Ox locker on a paintball CO2 tank.

Oh, and one other detail: If you do want to run air shifted, then find out in advance if that particular Ox locker is so old that it will not accept the air solenoid. Nimrod had to purchase a new cover for his in order to convert from cable to air. Since this is an older unit you could wind up facing the same situation, and then you are right back to the cost of a new cover/shift fork.
Click to expand...
 
denverd1 said:
never understood this logic. when climbing something, there is much more weight on the rear tires. also the front will usually articulate more than the rear.
Click to expand...
Think about mud and snow -- do you want to pull through it or push through it? if you pull you will force the rear to follow the direction, if you push you will make the front "get out of the way" which may or may not be the direction you are trying to go. Pulling is more effective in controlling the vehicle.

Think about carrying a hand-cart uphill, do you pull it or push it? You know that it takes less effort and more control to pull than to push.
 
BigNuge said:
At this point my plan would be to do a selectable up front, LSD in the rear.
Click to expand...

For a moderate trail rig I think that's reasonable.
If you're looking at LSD's, consider the Eaton Truetrac.
It's a "geared LSD" with NO clutches to wear out. I put one in my F-350 truck camper last year (rear axle) and drove to Alaska and the Arctic Ocean and back with no issues. It came in handy numerous times on dirt roads and has great on-road handling characteristics. Worth your while to check out some youtube videos to see how they operate.
 
BigNuge said:
One thing is clear, there no “one right” answer for everyone.

At this point my plan would be to do a selectable up front, LSD in the rear.
Click to expand...


Not a bad plan.



Ones choice of traction devices will depend on: the budget, the intended degree of difficulty in usage; hard core trail rig, vs. mixed street/trail use, vs. mostly street, and 4x4 trail conditions frequented most often.

For winter weather driving on pavement, front auto lockers suck and can cause borderline unsafe behaviors. One should choose a selectable locker, or a TrueTrac, or leave the front differential open, and lock the rear axle. For winter weather 4wheeling auto lockers often cause crabbing which causes the Jeep to slid to lowest sections of the trail. A selectable locker is the best choice for this situation.

On pavement, summer and winter, rear auto lockers behave almost exactly the same as the Factory installed LSD.

As I push my wheelbarrow over to my bulldozer, I often wonder why 4x4 trucks with Factory installed Limited Slip always have the LSD installed in the rear axle ?


All kidding aside, the distribution of weight shifts to the rear when going up an obstacle, for discussion lets just say to a 70% rear bias, so I would rather use 100% of the available 70% traction potential of the rear axle with my only traction device, rather than use 100% of the available 30% traction potential of the front axle with my only traction device. YMMV.




.


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