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Starter grinds after start

Dragonslayer

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Los Angeles
OK, here's one that's got me stumped:

Occasionally (about 1 in 6 times), when I start the engine,
the starter will grind gears for a split-second AFTER the
engine fires up and the ignition key is released.

It sounds like: rrr...rrr...rrr...vv-vroom...GRRINNGGG!

I suspected that the starter sliding gear was being sluggish
to retract after the solenoid is de-energized so I pulled the
starter and cleaned and lubed the planet gears and the
sliding gear splines and solenoid fork.

No change.

Then, I swapped the starter for a new (rebuilt) unit from
Kragen.

No change.

Now I'm thinking that, maybe, somehow, a jolt of electrical
current is being sent to the solenoid after the key is released.

Can (maybe) a loose ignition switch contact do this?

Is there (maybe) a dodgy power relay between the ignition
switch and the starter solenoid?

Has anyone else experienced this - or am I just so lucky?

Thanks all, in advance.
 
dont know if the solenoid is external as i havent had any probs with it but if it is id look there other than that i guess it sounds like the switch im thinking if you can get to the wireing with jumper cables you could jump it and see if it hangs up that way
 
OK.

I changed the starter relay (in the engine fuse box) and drove around all day
running errands, with multiple starts and shut-offs.

So, far, so good! No post start (starter) gear grinding.

I'll keep my fingers crossed because my next route of attack is to
change out the ignition switch - and it looks like that's no fun at all.

Thanks again, all!
 
FYI: the relay cost about $7 at Autozone.

I'm sad to report that the occasional post-start grinding returned a week
after may last post.

I tried fabricating a couple of shims (.040" total) to space the starter away
from the flexplate gear thinking that it'll give the starter gear a head start
when it retracts after start, but noo-o-oo. It didn't work.

Any other ideas from anyone will be GREATLY appreciated as my brain can't
think of any solutions.

Thanks.
 
Have you tested Kenzz's theory on the ignition switch? I could see the possibility that slop or stickiness in the ignition switch might cause the starter to stay engaged a little late from time to time. If you haven't already, I'd try a remote starter switch, turn the ignition on, and try multiple cranks with that to see if it behaves better.
 
No, I haven't tried hooking up a remote start switch - yet - and I think that
will be my next diagnostic test.

I did drench the ign switch itself, as well as the key cylinder, with silicone
lube spray (multiple times).

I also adjusted the switch a bit lower on the column thinking that it would open the circuit a few milliseconds sooner after releasing the key.

I'll report here what happens next.
 
A couple more thoughts...

I've seen the solenoids get contaminated with crud (even on street cars!) causing the plunger to stick after the start - try dismounting the solenoid and cleaning it internally (both the solenoid bore and the plunger on the start motor. Do a "final clean" by scuffing the plunger with about 400 grit sandpaper or emery cloth - that actually helps it slide a little easier...)

Do NOT, never ever, use any sort of "lube spray" on electrical contacts! Even if the residue it leaves is not flammable, it's still going to coat the electrical contacts with something that isn't conductive, and isn't going to enhance conductivity! There are electrical contact lubricants available (but rare...) and it's usually easiest to just blast the thing with contact cleaner and let it run copper-on-copper again, since copper is (somewhat) self-lubricating. WD-40, silicone sprays, and anything even remotely like that is right out for electrical work! Don't buy headaches, you'll get enough for free... You have no idea how many times I've had a diagnosis go awry, or had extra work made for me, because someone would use something goofy on electrical contacts...

The key cylinder doesn't do anything electrical, so that's not a problem. However, I'd be taking down the electrical part of the switch and cleaning it with xylene (or something else harsh) to get all the silicone out of it right about now.

Also, relays typically either work or they don't - and when they don't, they just don't. If a relay "delays on break," it's probably designed to, and meant to be used in industrial controls (automotive relays are not "delay on make" or "delay on break," so you shouldn't run into anything like that.) Note that that style of relay is used all over - you would probably do well to keep three or four spares around anyhow...

However, I used to run into this sort of thing all the time with Chevvy starters, and it usually traced back to the plunger getting dirty - so I'd start there.

5-90
 
I did dismantle and clean the starter thoroughly - but I did'nt buff the
plunger with #400 paper. The thought did cross my mind as the plunger
fits in the coil with piston-like tolerances and I had wondered if trapped
air was slowing the movement of the plunger. I'll do this on my next go.

Looks like changing the ignition switch is high on my "to-do" list.
 
Here's a followup to my starter's after-start grinding.

I was coming to my wit's end in trying to trace the cause of
my starter grinding after releasing the ignition switch and I was
very near to buying a new ignition switch and swapping it in.

One morning, while starting the car, the starter clicked and
barely engaged while trying to spin the engine.

On previous occasions when the starter would not engage
I often found success when I unplugged and then re-plugged
the Neutral Safety Switch (NSS) wire harness (near the
auto-transmission dipstick).

I did this again and (no surprize) the starter engaged and
spun the engine very smartly.

I noticed that there was no after-start grinding.

Days past. Then weeks past. Still, no grinding.

Now, a couple of months have gone by and I have not had a single case
of after-start grinding ever since I unplugged and re-plugged the NSS
harness.

I thought that this happy side effect was rather counter-intuitive
in that the starter now releases better when it is given a stronger
dose of electrical current.

My off-hand theory is that the stronger current must push the
starter solenoid plunger deeper into the soleniod coil. When this
happens, the solenoid return spring is compressed further, and
so has a much stronger "push-back" force when the soleniod coil
is de-energized when the ignition key is released.

I know that this theory sounds hokey...but for me (so far) the
after-start grinding has all but ended, and I've done nothing else
that could've rendered a cure.
 
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