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Taking a knee

Sorry that one falls squarely on the person shot.
Anyone who conceal carries knows or should know you dont tell a cop you have a gun and reach for your wallet without making sure the officer knows whats going on.

Different states have different rules around concealed carry and that confuses the best of us. For example, in my home state of VA, if I get pulled I'm not required by law to disclose that I'm carrying, but in NC 10 miles from my house, I am required to disclose my sidearm before anything else.

In either case, I'm smart enough to keep my hands on the wheel until instructed to do otherwise. In the case mentioned above, the cop followed policy but I believe he took it way too far.
 
Sorry that one falls squarely on the person shot.
Anyone who conceal carries knows or should know you dont tell a cop you have a gun and reach for your wallet without making sure the officer knows whats going on.

Shoot first and ask questions later huh? Is it common for someone to warn the officer they have a licensed firearm if they intend to do harm? Don't forget that the officer asked him to get his license and insurance, which were in his wallet. Sure the timing of events weren't exactly ideal, and he would probably still be alive if he didn't warn the officer.

Again I'd like to point out the fact that we wouldn't be having these conversations if it wasn't for some "privileged" guy on the TV kneeling for the anthem.

21687992_1805825552811440_3565430333296387237_n.jpg
 
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Again, his decision to kneel instead of sit out the anthem was from his two conversations mentioned above. That's all I'm saying.

As for what he mentioned above... I agree with him 100%.

Police and those in the military all have sworn an oath to the constitution. And the constitution has been broken in these cases.

Example:

A policeman shoots a man inside his car as he's reaching for his wallet literally right after asking him for his license and registration. The cop thought he was reaching for a gun. The man dies. His wife and his kid were in the car. Just think about the long term affects that this is going to have on not only them, but the community. The cop goes to court, but he walks. Not as so much as a slap on the wrist.

Meanwhile our country has people serving life sentences for pot possession?

To me, that is a case of a broken constitution.


You don't have to be a minority in order to discover the reality that this world is full of imperfect people. And sometimes those imperfect people even work together against you. Show me any walk of life where this does not occur.

The idea that this country is bad because someone got a raw deal doesn't cut the mustard. And it really doesn't cut it for the crowd in question.

What country in Africa would give them better opportunities to make something of themselves?

Seriously?

That is a third world continent.

If anything these folks should fall on the side of kissing the flag. Did their ancestors get a raw deal? Absolutely. But the price their ancestors paid has put them in a far better position than they would be otherwise.

Show me the list of countries where there is more opportunity to achieve, regardless of race or gender. Show me the list of countries with less corruption than the US. Show me the list of countries with greater personal liberty.

Is this one perfect? No. But to be unwilling to honor the flag of this country shows a very short sighted perspective.

And again, I go back to the actions of those in question. If anyone is likely to flip over police cars and burn their own neighborhood to the ground it is this group. That sure does plenty to make this a better place to live, now doesn't it? If they want a better world they need to start with a long look in the mirror. It is time for them to shape up themselves before they go complaining about anyone else.

Take education seriously. Take hard work seriously. Take relationships seriously. Knock it off with the drugs, the booze, the loose women and the disregard for the rules under which we are all expected to live. Quit calling yourselves victims and become achievers. You can do that in this country. There are plenty of others where you can't.

Fix the real problem.

And yes, there are plenty of others who have done just that. Their stories are a big part of what puts these kneelers to shame.
 
Gawd...... If I gotta listen to even one more person cry about Philando Castile being "killed" by that officer.....

The video couldn't be more clear, he was asked for the documents, he advised he was carrying, he was clearly told not to go for the weapon/show his hands/etc and he DID NOT COMPLY which posed an immediate threat to the officer. The officer screams at him to not move and he continues to dig for his wallet..... which was right next to the gun concealed on his belt.

Philando got SHOT in response to his perceived refusal to comply with directions. He died from the injuries. The officer had NO intention of killing him. End of story. The officer has NO idea where he keeps the documents he'd requested but in this day and age, even reaching into the glove box has us cops on edge. If we perceive a threat and give an order to NOT do something...... Please people, STOP DOING IT. Show your hands, explain your actions and lets move along. "Sorry, you asked for my insurance and registration, it's in the glove box." "Or in this case It's in my wallet."

No one gives the officer that did the shooting any consideration for his story. Just as much as Philando was raised on the mean streets.... that officer has worked those same mean streets. That officer might have been shot at once, twice, many times? He may have survived his shift by the narrowest of margins one or more times. Police Officers get tons of training and much of that is communicated using videos of police contacts going bad - because of mistakes made by the cop or the citizen. We learn from both. But the overwhelming number of videos of cops getting shot during simple traffic or pedestrian contacts reinforces our need to have a heightened sense of personal safety.
Ultimately, our goal is to go home. Remember, cops are citizens on patrol.

Philando was no stranger to police contact. He knew the drill, even his old lady wasn't surprised at what happened. It was a legit stop. Is the officer supposed to wait until he sees a gun pointed at him? Gonna see a whole lot of cops quitting if that's the requirement.

Anyway..... rant off.

On a positive note....... The vast majority of our contacts end with one or more people being pretty upset with the end result. We rarely get thanked and most often get reminded that they're paying our salaries.... But the other day, I had to stop and get gas while in uniform on my way to work at about 5pm. Every pump was occupied and I parked behind a couple cars to wait my turn. An older gentleman had just pulled into a spot and was about to pump gas and saw me. He walked over and insisted that I come take his pump and he'd pull out so that I could fill up. I thanked him for his generous offer and respectfully declined. I noted the Semper Fi sticker on his rear window and thanked him for his service and we shook hands. When I got to a pump and was standing by my truck filling up, I had 3 individuals walk from their cars, approach me and thank me for doing what I do. One in particular said "Thank you for being one of many that run towards danger while we run from it." My take was this stemmed in part from them seeing my interaction with the Veteran a moment earlier, and the Vegas shooting having happened just days earlier. It's rare moments like this that remind me why I can't walk away from this job.
 
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So you have a choice. Either inform yourself, or be pissed that some guy on the TV is kneeling instead of standing like all the other good soldiers.
Those are my only choices? I think you are fooling yourself if you see it so "clearly".

I would like to select a third option, I will not be "pissed" about it, however I will also not be spending time giving the NFL or its players my respect or my money. The way I see it, they have as much right to protest as anyone else in this country. Same as I have the right to protest them and spend my money elsewhere. But I certainly won't be pissed doing it.
 
Shoot first and ask questions later huh? Is it common for someone to warn the officer they have a licensed firearm if they intend to do harm? Don't forget that the officer asked him to get his license and insurance, which were in his wallet. Sure the timing of events weren't exactly ideal, and he would probably still be alive if he didn't warn the officer.

You cant honestly believe this.
There is a massive difference between an officer walking up and asking for license and registration then handing to him and him asking, then stating you have a gun and start reaching for your back.
The dynamic of the conversation changed as soon as he said he had a weapon.
If he hadnt of disclosed it and the officer saw the weapon as he was reaching the out come would have been the same.
This is not a race issue this is the failure of a person to comply.
Which is the reason for the vast majority of theses incidents.
This all goes back to my earlier comment about making informed decisions.
If you look at the number of "victims" (used term very loosely) you will find they were armed, commiting crimes, and resisted or failed to comply. Listenind and following instructions isnt that damned hard.
The biggest issue with society today is the complete refusal for personal accountability.
 
The same arguement could easily be made for the supporters of kneeling also.
People by nature are all to ready to accept hyperbole, drama, and use an emotional reponse about a subject rather than look at actual cases, facts, and figures to make an informed decision.
Looking at the actual cases, facts, and figures backs up the notion that justice is dealt differently based on race. According to surveys, black and white, both use drugs at similar rates ~13-14%. However, blacks make up some 35% of all arrested on drug charges, 50+% of convictions, nearly 75% of prison terms. And those prison terms are substantially longer than the sentences given to white offenders. If a black person is convicted of killing a white person, they are 3x as likely to get the death penalty than if they had killed anyone else. Cocaine and crack cocaine were punished very differently for a very long time. Possession of 1 gram would get you hit with intent to distribute and much harsher sentencing in comparison to powder cocaine. It took 500 grams of powder to get the same punishment. I believe it's been made closer to equal now, but crack still sees substantially worse punishments. The law was originally based on false studies by a man who also falsified his credentials as a doctor. Even after discovering his lies, it took years to fix the law based on his "studies". Guess who is more likely to use crack and who is more likely to use powder cocaine?

When did marijuana get outlawed? What was the fear spread through society leading up to it? Look up reefer madness and the fear that black men on marijuana would be unstoppable beasts, seducing all the white women with their devil jazz...
This is easy enough to solve. Just end all welfare programs. And tell them we are doing this on account of all the kneelers.

Imagine the inner city celebrations.
Yes, because welfare is strictly an inner city, black issue.
The fix for these are simple: Don't break the law.
What law did Henry Davis break? And when did police become the judge and executioner? The job of the police is to enforce the law. Their job isn't even to protect and serve. The Supreme Court determined that. Their job is to enforce the law, and deliver any criminals they catch to the judicial system to have their guilt determined and punishment set.
https://www.npr.org/2014/09/12/348010247/in-ferguson-mo-before-michael-brown-there-was-henry-davis

You don't have to be a minority in order to discover the reality that this world is full of imperfect people. And sometimes those imperfect people even work together against you. Show me any walk of life where this does not occur.

The idea that this country is bad because someone got a raw deal doesn't cut the mustard. And it really doesn't cut it for the crowd in question.

What country in Africa would give them better opportunities to make something of themselves?

Seriously?

That is a third world continent.

If anything these folks should fall on the side of kissing the flag. Did their ancestors get a raw deal? Absolutely. But the price their ancestors paid has put them in a far better position than they would be otherwise.

Show me the list of countries where there is more opportunity to achieve, regardless of race or gender. Show me the list of countries with less corruption than the US. Show me the list of countries with greater personal liberty.

Is this one perfect? No. But to be unwilling to honor the flag of this country shows a very short sighted perspective.

And again, I go back to the actions of those in question. If anyone is likely to flip over police cars and burn their own neighborhood to the ground it is this group. That sure does plenty to make this a better place to live, now doesn't it? If they want a better world they need to start with a long look in the mirror. It is time for them to shape up themselves before they go complaining about anyone else.

Take education seriously. Take hard work seriously. Take relationships seriously. Knock it off with the drugs, the booze, the loose women and the disregard for the rules under which we are all expected to live. Quit calling yourselves victims and become achievers. You can do that in this country. There are plenty of others where you can't.

Fix the real problem.

And yes, there are plenty of others who have done just that. Their stories are a big part of what puts these kneelers to shame.
Africa may be in dire straits these days, but I'm sure having thousands upon thousands of people stolen over the course of a few centuries had no impact. They certainly weren't affected by the suspicion and fear and hatred stirred up and stoked by the traders forcing them to decide between being taken themselves or delivering other tribes to be taken instead. I'm sure the theft of the nations' natural resources had no negative repercussions...Prior to all this, Africa was a pretty vibrant land with numerous cultures, some of whom actually were ahead of their time, like the Egyptians, the Phoenicians (who likely beat Columbus to America by hundreds of years) etc etc.

You cant honestly believe this.
There is a massive difference between an officer walking up and asking for license and registration then handing to him and him asking, then stating you have a gun and start reaching for your back.
The dynamic of the conversation changed as soon as he said he had a weapon.
If he hadnt of disclosed it and the officer saw the weapon as he was reaching the out come would have been the same.
This is not a race issue this is the failure of a person to comply.
Which is the reason for the vast majority of theses incidents.
This all goes back to my earlier comment about making informed decisions.
If you look at the number of "victims" (used term very loosely) you will find they were armed, commiting crimes, and resisted or failed to comply. Listenind and following instructions isnt that damned hard.
The biggest issue with society today is the complete refusal for personal accountability.
People only want personal accountability when it means they can blame the dead guy and hold the officer up as blameless, just a guy who wants to go home. But in what world does selling cigarettes on the street warrant being choked to death? I don't know, but when it came time to hold Officer Pantaleo accountable for violating department policy and killing Eric Garner, the grand jury declined and people stretch and contort to say Garner deserved what he got. When it came to hold the officers accountable for beating Kelly Thomas to death, the jury acquitted. The only case that comes to mind where an officer has been held accountable for shooting someone comes in the case of Levar Jones and Sean Groubert. Groubert shot Jones when Jones reached into his vehicle for license and registration. Immediately he knew that he'd screwed up, and when it came to court, he plead guilty. He's about the only one to actually serve jail time, and the only one to hold himself accountable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yEQDBSt58w
http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/leonard-pitts-jr/article148955514.html
http://www.wltx.com/news/local/levar-jones-sean-groubert-sentence-reaction/464862103
 
Last week in Mexico, one genius football player sit for for the American anthem then stood for the Mexican anthem. It ain’t about nothin more than look at me, I’m rich and don’t care or have respect for anything but me and mine!!!!!
 
Darky, I think you can show whatever you want with statistics.
For example:
Are there more Blacks arrested for drug offences because they are the majority of users/dealers, or that is what the Neighborhoods these people live in decided was their priority to eliminate from their streets?

It's hard to fly like an eagle when surrounded by turkeys.
There are good people from these neighborhoods that want to see their streets cleaned up, for their schools not to be a hotbed of disrespect and crime, and for their children to grow up as an asset to society instead of a blight. For businesses and schools to succeed in these urban areas, crime must be managed, so the neighborhoods ask for assistance from the Police. That assistance comes with a price - a price some in the neighborhood are unwilling to accept. Protesting that creates unrest, which perpetuates the problem instead of solving it.

I am a firm believer that some of the well meaning policies to occasionally help people of all races, has been used as a living by some. This dependence on the Government to solve Social issues must be addressed in all areas, not just Urban areas. The Governments have shown themselves, not just here, but around the world, as incapable of legislating morality.

That said, that is no excuse for disrespecting our symbols or traditions.
If these people don't like how things are done, then they need to engage. I didn't say "Protest", I said "Engage".
There is a Rapper who gives to the Schools in the City of Chicago. Well done him.

Money may not be the answer, maybe running for Office is, or getting involved in troubled neighborhoods is?
Protest in an of itself rarely accomplishes anything, especially if you are a minority voice. People just react as" 'Well look at those folks - protesting and causing trouble again.'
 
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Here's an interesting example Darky. This business sells Coffee and made a faux pas in an add campaign. Instead of politely educating the owner, it looks like people are trying to close the business. https://patch.com/colorado/lakewood...-gaffe-denver-coffee-shop-ad-agency-apologize

Maybe that's the point though, if the neighborhood does not grow, values collapse and rent becomes affordable again - along with all the other social issues that follow.
 
Darky, I think you can show whatever you want with statistics.
For example:
Are there more Blacks arrested for drug offences because they are the majority of users/dealers, ...

Personally, I think it is unfair that men are always the ones charged for sexual harassment, rape, etc.

Half the population are women. Why aren't they charged with half of these crimes?

Clearly, the system is biased.

:looney:
 
Darky, I think you can show whatever you want with statistics.
For example:
Are there more Blacks arrested for drug offences because they are the majority of users/dealers, or that is what the Neighborhoods these people live in decided was their priority to eliminate from their streets?

It's hard to fly like an eagle when surrounded by turkeys.
There are good people from these neighborhoods that want to see their streets cleaned up, for their schools not to be a hotbed of disrespect and crime, and for their children to grow up as an asset to society instead of a blight. For businesses and schools to succeed in these urban areas, crime must be managed, so the neighborhoods ask for assistance from the Police. That assistance comes with a price - a price some in the neighborhood are unwilling to accept. Protesting that creates unrest, which perpetuates the problem instead of solving it.

I am a firm believer that some of the well meaning policies to occasionally help people of all races, has been used as a living by some. This dependence on the Government to solve Social issues must be addressed in all areas, not just Urban areas. The Governments have shown themselves, not just here, but around the world, as incapable of legislating morality.

That said, that is no excuse for disrespecting our symbols or traditions.
If these people don't like how things are done, then they need to engage. I didn't say "Protest", I said "Engage".
There is a Rapper who gives to the Schools in the City of Chicago. Well done him.

Money may not be the answer, maybe running for Office is, or getting involved in troubled neighborhoods is?
Protest in an of itself rarely accomplishes anything, especially if you are a minority voice. People just react as" 'Well look at those folks - protesting and causing trouble again.'

I almost bit on the troll bait and replied but then he used a satirical comedy from 1936 as an example for facts he lost all credibility.

It all goes back to my earlier comment about facts and personal accountability neither of which he cares about.
His facts are skewed and his information is lacking. He can believe what he wishes but he should be prepared to back up his statements with empirical facts other than that it is just an opinion. Neither of which he provided in full.
 
Most people are clueless about the Taft Stamp Act.
 
Employee conduct rules often interfere with Constitutional rights.

You can say what you want on your own time and on your own property, but when you are on the clock you better mind who it is that is paying your salary.

Don't like the rules? Get another job.

I have no respect for these overpaid babies.

^^^ This.
 
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