CRASH / GOATMAN: More Dana 44 questions

I have been doing my research on the Dana 44 front axle and I have decided on an early Waggy front end which is due to arrive tomorrow. I live fairly close to Currie and after a core, they only want 600 to change the castor and put the brackets on the axle (including all hardware (great price and saves me the hassle)).

I have read (multiple times) the Dana 44 Tech thread by Crash (incredible by the way!) and have been digging through the threads for more information. I have found a lot of answers but I still have a few questions though.

1. I will have about 8-9" of lift on my 94 XJ with an automatic tranny with 35s. The reason for the varience in height is because I will have the ACOS on there so I can adjust my height as necessary. I need to know what angle to have the castor changed to over stock. I did notice BRETTM listed 16 degrees but it seems really high (I did read his reason though). I know Goat has 8" coils (with one cut out) and am curious as to what was done there too. Any thoughts? I would like to drop the axle off this week and provide them with an angle.

2. I got two flat knuckles off a 70s Chevy Blazer and am hoping to go high steer on this project. Currie (when they weld all of my brackets on my waggy axle) says the brackets will be identical to the Dana 30 (in regards to positioning). My concern is that with the high steer, I will hit the coils when turning to both extremes. Is there any way around that? I asked them if they (Currie) could re-position the coil pads back one inch but they couldn't. Also, I need to know who I can send out my knuckles to to be machined (and have the studs installed) AND purchase the proper high-steer arms (and possible a heavy duty tie rod and drag link).

3. I have the Chevy brakes all ready to go but...will the stock XJ braking hardware work on these brakes or do I need to change the proportioning valve or anything else to get it to work?

I know I am asking a lot here on one thread but I appreciate all the help I can get.

-Avery aka CRACKER

CRASH and Goatman both used HP D44s, so their degrees of knuckle rotation will be very different from your LP Waggy. I'd guess 12 degrees is what you want.

cracker said:

2. I got two flat knuckles off a 70s Chevy Blazer and am hoping to go high steer on this project. Currie (when they weld all of my brackets on my waggy axle) says the brackets will be identical to the Dana 30 (in regards to positioning). My concern is that with the high steer, I will hit the coils when turning to both extremes. Is there any way around that? I asked them if they (Currie) could re-position the coil pads back one inch but they couldn't.

Click to expand...

Yes, the tie rod will hit the coils at full lock unless you reposition the coils back a little(or get long hi steer arms which can cause other issues).
My coils are positioned directly above the axle tube and I have no interferance whatsoever.

Also, I need to know who I can send out my knuckles to to be machined (and have the studs installed) AND purchase the proper high-steer arms (and possible a heavy duty tie rod and drag link).

Click to expand...

PartsMike. Great guy to deal with and he knows his stuff. http://www.partsmikeparts.com/
I'm running his knuckles and hi steer arms.

3. I have the Chevy brakes all ready to go but...will the stock XJ braking hardware work on these brakes or do I need to change the proportioning valve or anything else to get it to work?

Click to expand...

The brakes will be fine. You will need the proper banjo bolts and may need to drill out the brake line mounting block to accept them.
I'm running a Chevy K10 caliper with Ford F150 rotor and it stops really well.

That's the problem with dropping it off at Currie. They won't build your axle correctly for what you are intending.

A. Your tie rod WILL hit your coils at full lock. The coil needs to be back at least an inch.

B. How are you going to address the Panhard position in relation to the new drag link location on the high steer arm? I don't think they'll move that for you, and getting that correct is very important. To mount the Panhard that far above the tube requires a VERY beefy mount.

C. On an HP axle with about 8 inches of lift, I set the caster at 6 degrees and rotate the pinion up 13 degrees from horizontal. This sets the pinion perfectly in line with the front shaft. The caveat is, I have my T-case clocked up about 2", so I would say that if you go up from horizontal 11 degrees or so, you will be fine. An XJ handles very well with 4-7 degrees of caster, so you will have some adjustment to play with. With an LP diff though, I'd try to get my pinion as high as possible so it doesn't drag in the rocks. Forget the pinion angle unless you run on the highway in 4wd a lot. Remember, you're going to be able to unlock your hubs now! PUt it up at 12 degrees and you'll be happy.

In short, if you have the skills, I'd have Currie weld on the LCA and UCA brackets, cut and turn the knuckles to your specs, and then you weld on the coil perches and fab the Panhard bracket.

Ditto on Part's Mike arms, very beefy and precisely made. OTT also makes very nice arms.

CRASH

cracker said:

1. I will have about 8-9" of lift on my 94 XJ with an automatic tranny with 35s. The reason for the varience in height is because I will have the ACOS on there so I can adjust my height as necessary. I need to know what angle to have the castor changed to over stock. I did notice BRETTM listed 16 degrees but it seems really high (I did read his reason though). I know Goat has 8" coils (with one cut out) and am curious as to what was done there too. Any thoughts? I would like to drop the axle off this week and provide them with an angle.

Click to expand...

I have about 8" of lift. I set my pinion at 10* and my castor at 5*, which is real close with the HP housing. If I was doing it again, though, I would go another couple of degrees. I think you can go at least 12* and 6*, and probably a touch more. What you'll end up doing is adjusting up the pinion and loosing some castor, which won't make much difference even if you miss it by a few degrees.

cracker said:

2. I got two flat knuckles off a 70s Chevy Blazer and am hoping to go high steer on this project. Currie (when they weld all of my brackets on my waggy axle) says the brackets will be identical to the Dana 30 (in regards to positioning). My concern is that with the high steer, I will hit the coils when turning to both extremes. Is there any way around that? I asked them if they (Currie) could re-position the coil pads back one inch but they couldn't. Also, I need to know who I can send out my knuckles to to be machined (and have the studs installed) AND purchase the proper high-steer arms (and possible a heavy duty tie rod and drag link).

Click to expand...

Last time I checked (awhile ago) Currie was charging 150 to narrow a housing, which is easily worth it. I'd have gladly done that if I was close to them, but for me you'd have to add shipping. I don't see a point in doing a custom housing and then putting on stock brackets in the stock locations. The LCA mounts should be moved up some, and the UCA mounts should be moved up some. As long as you're building a custom axle, you should take opportunity to improve your control arm angles. I didn't use a single stock bracket on mine, except the actual coil seat. Of course, that all depends on you fab skills and how much you're willing to do. Like CRASH said, you'll need the track bar mount on top of the housing to match the drag link on the hysteer, and the stabilizer shock won't go in the stock location (if you even use one, which I don't). I'll defer to CRASH and Jes's wisdom on the coil positions, I didn't have a problem with that. But, my arms are slightly longer, and my coil mounts are 2" higher than stock and the hysteer arms hit them as steering stops. I wish I could remember if I moved the coil seats back, but I don't, and I propably didn't. I had a local machine shop drill and tap the other Chev knuckle, and mill the top perfectly flat. He just matched the drivers side, and any machine shop could do it. Many places sell hysteer arms, make it easy on yourself. Mine are from Bob Roggy but I don't know what he's doing these days.

BTW, I'd talk to Foothill 4x4, I think they're in Pomona, and he's more flexible than Currie. So is TriCounty gear, but they're harder to work with.

cracker said:

3. I have the Chevy brakes all ready to go but...will the stock XJ braking hardware work on these brakes or do I need to change the proportioning valve or anything else to get it to work?

Click to expand...

The only thing I did on mine was to drill out the hole in the brake line to accept the larger banjo bolt. I already had the later model booster and master cylinder, and did nothing to the proportioning valve.

Crash, Goat, Jes, BrettM thank you. You have helped me out quite a bit. I did not realize about the issues in regards to the high-steer and the track bar location. That has really made me think and ponder what to do.

If I am going to do this I might as well do it right and change the bracket locations and prepare for the high steer set up. Per Richard's suggestion, I spoke to TriCounty Gear and they didn't want to work with me very easily but they said they would machine my passenger knuckle and put the threaded studs in for $85 which I didn't think was too bad. Otherwise they wanted $2300 for a high steer conversion. Foothill is in Auburn (a little too far for me) but I have dealt with them before on some Dana 30 gears and they were extremely pleasant to work with.

My regular differential guy, who used to work at TriCounty Gear, recommended I speak to Dynatrax but I was unable to get through today. Since Currie still will give me $500 with a core, I MIGHT get a high-pinion D44 housing from them ($599) and pay the $200 to have the castor adjusted.

I will take pretty much everyone's advice and set the caster at 6 degrees and rotate the pinion up 12 degrees from horizontal.

After doing more research, I think I am interested in Claytons D44 mounts (http://www.claytonoffroad.com/) and will put them on myself unless anyone has any better suggestions (about the mounts). The Clayton mounts seem to accomodate the higher track bar bracket but I will get more details when I call them in the morning (I need swaybar mounts too).

OTT and Part's Mike arms look like the ticket here. Even Mr. N's DANA 44 build-up suggested the same arms after I read it today.
http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/Mr.N44.htm#Housing%20Prep%20&%20Painting

Thanks again

-Avery

Here is what Clayton's setup looks like on the TB end.



Shay

Great pic! I had just noticed the other pics on the Dana 44 Tech thread

Is there any mounts for the swaybar? Also is there any skids necessary for the LCA? That picture gives me a good visual about the track bar. Does it give the proper clearance for a high steer setup?

-Avery

No mounts for swaybar and no lower skids needed. Don't know about the high steer.

Shay

shayzj said:

No mounts for swaybar and no lower skids needed. Don't know about the high steer.

Shay

Click to expand...

Thanks. Is there any way I can get a pic from directly above? That should give me (everyone) a good idea.

I really like Jes's design but I am not up to that level of fab yet.



-Avery

I'm sorry, I didn't mean Foothill, I meant Hicks 4x4 in Pomona. He is pretty easy to work with. When I was looking into a few things he would have done pretty much anything I wanted. A number of the guys in my local club (Bakersfield) have bought axle assemblies from him.

JKS sells brackets for use on an over the knuckle steering setup. They have both a track bar mount and sway bar link mounts that you weld on, and they work well. They were designed by Hinkley before he sold out to JKS.

shayzj said:

Here is what Clayton's setup looks like on the TB end.

Shay

Click to expand...

That mount is not high enough for a proper high steer setup. The Panhard angle will be off.

The JKS mount is much higher, and gives you several choices for Panhard height.

ahhh track bars are over-rated, i'm just getting rid of mine all together :laugh3:

sintax said:

ahhh track bars are over-rated, i'm just getting rid of mine all together :laugh3:

Click to expand...

Going with the Vintagespeed well proven design ?

Goatman said:

I'm sorry, I didn't mean Foothill, I meant Hicks 4x4 in Pomona. He is pretty easy to work with. When I was looking into a few things he would have done pretty much anything I wanted. A number of the guys in my local club (Bakersfield) have bought axle assemblies from him.

JKS sells brackets for use on an over the knuckle steering setup. They have both a track bar mount and sway bar link mounts that you weld on, and they work well. They were designed by Hinkley before he sold out to JKS.

Click to expand...

Here are the JKS brackets:





They look pretty good. Now all I need to do is come up with the LCA, Coil Pads, and UCA brackets and I think I will be good.

I will call Hicks 4X4 today and see what they say.

-Avery

cracker said:

Now all I need to do is come up with the LCA, Coil Pads, and UCA brackets and I think I will be good.

I will call Hicks 4X4 today and see what they say.

-Avery

Click to expand...

Currie LCA Brackets are $40 a pair as opposed to $40 a piece from R.E.



Hey Jes, when ya gonna do a 4 link version...............:laugh3:

91 Jeep Project said:

Currie LCA Brackets are $40 a pair as opposed to $40 a piece from R.E.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip. I got the Waggy axle in today. It seems fine (Overnight lost one of the axle shafts so if anyone has an extra passenger waggy shaft, let me know). I did not realize the driver's side stock leaf pad was permanant (molded into the dif housing). Has anyone had any trouble getting the brackets set up because of the lack of room over there? It seems that there is only 3 1/2 inches of housing exposed on the drivers side.

Here's a pic of my LCA frame mount.


It's pretty easy to make any suspension arm mount out of 3x3" boxed tubing 3/16 wall, which is 2 5/8" ID, the same as all control arm bushings, johnny joints, etc. All of my mounts are made from that 3x3 boxed tubing.

You could use the JKS parts for the track bar and sway bar links, and the 3x3 tubing for the LCA mounts. Then figure something out for the UCA mounts.

cracker said:

Thanks for the tip. I got the Waggy axle in today. It seems fine (Overnight lost one of the axle shafts so if anyone has an extra passenger waggy shaft, let me know). I did not realize the driver's side stock leaf pad was permanant (molded into the dif housing). Has anyone had any trouble getting the brackets set up because of the lack of room over there? It seems that there is only 3 1/2 inches of housing exposed on the drivers side.

Click to expand...

Yes, it is problematic.

That's why we cut down Ford axles!

CRASH

A couple pictures of how I did the driver's side coil mount on my waggy axle.