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  #1  
Old February 24th, 2004, 16:43
xxxj-va xxxj-va is offline
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Metal prep before welding

So I made a mess welding some 1/8" angle to 1/8" mild steel plate using 6013 rods and a lincoln ac/dc 225 buzzbox. Some welds were good (like a bunch of dimes) some were well, bad even though I kept the same amps. So I'm thinking its all about the prep work. What do y'all recommend for metal prep for the beginner? I'm not looking to buy some specialty metal prep formula for $$$$ unless there isn't an affordable substitute. Thanks!

P
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  #2  
Old February 24th, 2004, 16:57
Abugarcia Abugarcia is offline
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Re: Metal prep before welding

Other that making sure there isn't a lot of rust, I can't think of anything. If there is any oil on the metal it will burn off right away and not cause a problem. Maybe someone else can think of something.
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  #3  
Old February 24th, 2004, 16:59
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xj92 xj92 is offline
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Re: Metal prep before welding

Just make sure you're welding bare metal to bare metal. Grind off any paint or other junk on either of the surfaces before welding.
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  #4  
Old February 24th, 2004, 17:06
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Fergie Fergie is offline
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Re: Metal prep before welding

Ether or rubbing alcohol once you sanded the surface free of rust. It evaporates quickly, so you dont have to worry about flamability.

Fergie
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  #5  
Old February 24th, 2004, 18:05
xjblaine xjblaine is offline
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Re: Metal prep before welding

practice more....go slow, prep the metal real well with degreaser, a wire brush, and/or angle grinder. If you haven't already done so, buy a book about welding, I've got Richard Finch's Welder's Handbook. It's not too technical, and tells you how to do it right.
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  #6  
Old February 24th, 2004, 23:25
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Re: Metal prep before welding

sounds like your welding 6013 like 6010 and not 6013...

your probably using 1/8" rod or something?
set your machine to DCEP ( I think thats right...)
set your amperage to about 90 amps.
now instead of start stops like O-O-O-O-
maintain a slow steady, smooth motion. if you do any side to side motion, make it like a tight zigzag like /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
also start with running a series of beads on flat plate. first learn to find the puddle and walk it along. youll know you are getting good with 6013 when the slag bends up as it cools and you don't have to chip it with a hammer...
just take your time and get it right on flat plate before you try to joing two pieces of metal.
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  #7  
Old February 25th, 2004, 08:47
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Re: Metal prep before welding

An angle grinder, small, one hand type, is often used more than the welder, when welding. Cleans up the metal for welding, cleans off splatter, sharp corners and excessive bead. Generally and pratically the best, handy hand tool, a welder needs to be competant with, along with a good set/variety of locking pliers, c-clamps and such.
Technique is something that´s learned. General technique for rod welding is to point the rod in the oppostite direction you are welding. This piles up the flux behind the work. Also in most constructions, a series of 1 inch or so welds, works better than one continious weld. Kind of like a long spot weld. A continious weld is often unnecessary and the extra heat just causes problems. Think of the weld like any fastener, a bolt, a rivet or whatever. Make it twice as much mass, as a bolt, that would be needed as a fastener in the same situation. Any more is often redundant and doesn´t add to strength. And is probably twice as strong as it needs to be anyway.
Welding inside corners, has often been a problem. The heat reflects and the hot gasses reflect off of the sides of a right angle, which causes bubbles, splatters and excessive flux buildup. Very clean metal, smaller rod and a slightly higher heat often helps. Much of welding is technique and feel, which you´ll pick up with experience.
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  #8  
Old February 25th, 2004, 20:16
chassellbandit chassellbandit is offline
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Re: Metal prep before welding

to add to the above, i've been using a flap disc lately on my grinder for surface prep and such and have really liked it. espically on the round tubing. its much easier to keep the round shape than with a hard disc. the downside is the expense, they're about 7-8 bucks a pop at lowes round here
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  #9  
Old February 25th, 2004, 21:55
xxxj-va xxxj-va is offline
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Re: Metal prep before welding

Great advice guys, I'll grind it clean and use some degreaser or alcohol. What I did weld ain't comin apart (it just a table to weld on)...I am using 6013 rods that are 1/8". I'll pick up some 6010 and go DC+ on the legs (1/8" angle). Should I use a smaller diameter electrode? Rule of thumb for rod diameter vs. work thickness?
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  #10  
Old February 26th, 2004, 17:21
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Re: Metal prep before welding

learn on the 6013 first... 6010 is a PITA.

once you master 6013 then go to 7018.
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  #11  
Old February 27th, 2004, 17:49
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Re: Metal prep before welding

6013 is intended for use on "like new" clean steel...needs to be free of any contaminates..largely used for production work because the rod can be fed "drag" style...makes a beautiful weld if done properly...hard to use for verticle welds..if you have to weld rusty, dirty, oily steel use 6011..and yup 7018 is a PITA to work with...
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  #12  
Old February 27th, 2004, 19:00
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Re: Metal prep before welding

6013 is fast freeze...and clean metal is best. if its dirty, wire brush, grind, etc... i would recommend 6011 for beginners. 6011 is a more violent arc, but much more forgiving on dirty material. i do not recommend 7018 for two reasons: its not as cheap, its "low hydrogen" characteristics lend it to more critical applications. i know you weren't asking about 7018, but i saw it mentioned here. if you want to know about the different kinds of filler materials AWS 5.1 is helpful. for consistent beads every time...practice, practice, practice. oh yeah, i almost dorgot...6013 can be welded ac or dc (electrode positive or negative)...
just for giggles 60 in 6013 = tensile strength (ie 60,000 psi) the 1 refers to welding positions (ie 1= all positions) the last digit refers to a combination of the current used and the covering (which in this case is rutlie).
if you do go out and get 6011 or find some 6010 they are both dc electrode positive.
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  #13  
Old February 27th, 2004, 19:31
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Backdraft Backdraft is offline
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Re: Metal prep before welding

I just started learning how to weld about 3 weeks ago and all i can say is this thread is a home run as far as advice goes. I THOUGHT i was doing pretty good with the beads i have been laying down but after reading this advice, i will be going outside and applying this newfound knowledge to the next project i'll be working on. so far ive built a set of rails and a cargo rack and this weekend i'll be starting the bumpers with more confidence thanks to my XJ brethren. Keep the great advice rolling.


Mike
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  #14  
Old February 27th, 2004, 19:53
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REDXJ4FUN REDXJ4FUN is offline
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Re: Metal prep before welding

Its odd I hate welding with 6013 infact the welds sucked but switching to 7018 was sweet, nice welds and easy. guess I'm just back wards like normal.
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  #15  
Old February 27th, 2004, 22:20
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Re: Metal prep before welding

I got away from SMAW and now I prefer to either FCAW or GMAW when speed is an issue in production. when I want clean precise welds I prefer GTAW.

But now with the portability of my new GTAW machine (maxstar 150) I can keep a small bundle of rod and SMAW in the field.

for those of you scratching your heads...
SMAW shielded metal arc welding (stick)
FCAW flux core arc welding (gasless wire feed)
GMAW gas metal arc welding (MIG)
GTAW gas tungsten arc welding (tig)

Take a welding class at the local college.
it also helps to have a steady hand, so watch how much coffee you drink...
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